Smokeless to true and so it goes on the closures continue
Smoking ban is killing pubs, says landlord
"A PUB landlord has sounded the death knell for the
traditional English pub after his takings have dropped by almost 30 per cent since the smoking ban started."
http://tinyurl.com/256ofy
Smoking ban threat to bingo hall
"He said that in November last year the hall was seeing 1,500 customers through the door a week - now it is down to an average of 900.
Mr Lambert said: "The Government has been very inflexible with the law. In some Continental countries, bar managers can pay a little extra to allow smoking at the bar, but not here.
"Smokers are being treated like lepers and many pubs will also feel the affects this winter."
http://tinyurl.com/3ast7o
You know it is realy ironic that this country freed Europe from the Nazis and Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Malta, Italy Slovakia, Germany and Russia have all implemented some sort of CHOICE either separate rooms or ventilation, whilst this country has implemented the same smoking ban as the Nazis's did - it disgusts me
Smokless I ran that through Babel for a translation, how very true.
Interestingly the HOUSE OF LORDS - Select Committee on Economic Affairs got it totally right read paragraphs 76 to 84, did this Government and MPs listen to them NO they seem to think they are a law unto themselves.
In Britain, they came first for the pistol shooters, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a pistol shooter;
And then they came for the smokers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a smoker;
And then they came for the pub goers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a pub goer;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Well not only that but I also saw a tv program on how it affected the asian community as they had a smoking house where (and i dont understand this can any asians help me out) something was created in a sort of bowl which created smoke coming out of it via a long pipe into this bowl which they would suck in.
So this bowl created the smoke which they would suck via a pipe.
When the smoking ban came, these smoking houses went bust or they had to do this outside.
Sorry if any asians are offended by the above terms but i dont know how to correctly describe it. Will do research.
Chulcoop, yes its put them out of business, in the middle east shisha bars are common, they are water pipes that you smoke tobacco through in different flavours, its a cultural custom thing like a pint and a smoke. I understand they have applied for a Judicial Review, as has a patient in a mental hospital and Dave West of the Hey ho club in London.
Well the clubs and pubs are definitely getting quieter Donnie. I didnt go out with my mate to the club, as it was raining And also they have decided not tom install patio heaters. I may have upset my mate, but I AM NOT being treated like a third rate citizen, as I have my pride.
Lets hope common sense prevails. Well at least with our Conservative party, unlikely with fraudsters on the other bench!!!
In Birmingham Ayad Albelbese, owner of the Ali Baba shisha cafe, says local university students used to describe his place as their "second home" during term time.
His cafe - which existed only to sell shisha and drinks - closed completely at 0559 on the morning the ban kicked in.
Returning to his desolate property, he says he and other owners are angry that they were not consulted sufficiently before the ban.
"Ninety five percent of my business was relying on shisha...[since the ban] I have been without an income, I have a wife and a child to support, I have a mortgage...how will I pay my rent?"
...
"How can you have a shisha outside in this weather?"
The thing is there was absolutely no need for a total ban. Take a shisha bar for example you wouldnt enter one would you if you didnt want to smoke a shisha and you wouldnt work there if you didnt like shisha smoking so what happened to freedom of choice for the owner and his customers.
The same applies to pubs, if there were smoking and non smoking rooms customers and the owners have choice.
When it comes to clubs it should be the memberships choice they should have the right to a democratic vote ( forgot Labour dont believe in democratic votes).
Everybody knows the "Passive Smoking" angle is the biggist load of b******s out and whats even worse the SCOTH report left out all of the studies that said its harmless, but them SCOTH and ASH are one and the same - incest abounds.
This government and its kwangos are now that corrupt they have destroyed most peoples trust in government.
Anyway like Deal I am sitting at home in the warm with a drink and a cigarette I have no intention of dying of pneumonia sat outside a pub in the middle of winter.
Smokeless/Deal, its realy biting now no denying it
UK's largest pub operator goes into the red
"Britain's biggest pub operator, Mitchells & Butlers, was plunged into the red today, posting annual losses of £48m after booking a £221m provision against possible losses from unwanted hedging exposures.
The group was also beginning to see an impact from the first winter since the introduction of the smoking ban in public places in England and Wales. This is expected, initially at least, to prompt more drinkers to stay at home. M&B continues to emphasise its strong and growing food sales"
Food Sales wont do them any good, when every pub becomes just like a resturant you have got thousands of them.
The sad thing is that these pubs have people employed in them who will lose their jobs. People will lose their homes. Lives will be destroyed.
I saw it when the pistol ban came in, clubs closed people lost jobs and homes, divorces and depression. I would say more people died from suicide as a result than died in that school but people may think that callous.
And all because one group cannot tollerate what another group do, and who wins? certainly not the society we used to love.
Deal, Smokeless 2008 is looking very bleak, Gordons coffers are emptying
Profit warnings jar high street as slowdown looms
"The cloud hanging over the UK economy turned a shade darker yesterday as three companies dependent on consumer spending each issued profits warnings. Shares dived in Clapham House, the restaurant group behind Tootsies and the Gourmet Burger Kitchen, ScS Upholstery, the furniture store chain, and Regent Inns, owner of the Walkabout and Jongleurs bars, as all three warned of a serious slowdown in sales.
Regent Inns said its sales over the 21 weeks to the end of November had fallen 2.8 per cent compared to last year and warned it was no longer confident of achieving profits growth during the current financial year. Its shares fell 41.5 per cent.
Bob Ivell, the Regent Inns chairman, said that the warning reflected the growing reluctance of consumers to spend. He said: "We remain cautious in our outlook given the trading conditions in the late-night market, the likely slowdown in consumer spending, the full impact of the smoking ban and England's failure to qualify for Euro 2008."
Smokeless/Deal it would appear that Parliament was made aware of what would happen to the hospitality trade if this ban was enacted and still they went ahead - what kind of people are these.
"The RIA ignores the impact that the smoking ban has had on the licensed trade in Ireland. Retail alcohol sales have not been affected mainly because of the growth in the off-trade sales as people choose to drink and smoke at home. According to the Vintners' Federation of Ireland[45] (VFI), rural pubs have been worst affected by the ban. The VFI is aware of just over 200 licensed premises that have closed since the introduction of the smoking ban in March 2004. According to the CSO in Ireland, 7,600 jobs were lost in the hospitality sector in 2004. This equates to 150 jobs per week. There is no reason to believe that the impact in England and Wales would be any less.
The same impact would result in the closure of approximately 1,000 pubs. Taking into account the ban on smoking in public places in Scotland, an estimated 33,600 jobs in pubs and bars in the UK would be lost as a result of closures and decreased trade[46]. Furthermore, 5.9% fewer jobs would be created in our sector, which has always been a major source of employment opportunities for a wide range of people of different ages and skill levels[47]. "
What a shame yet another pub, The Dambusters in Scampton (December 4) has had to close due to hard times and, it has to be said, the smoking ban. How many more will close next year in Lincoln ? What people do not realise is the knock-on effect on other local businesses. Let's hope the Government sets up a compensation programme for all the affected restaurants and local pubs next year.
http://tinyurl.com/3yhs7t
They will be lucky, Brown robs your pension fund, hes hardly likely to pay out compensation
Sorry to keep using the pistol ban in my examples in your thread Donnie.
A part of the pistol ban was that compensation was paid for the confiscation of the pistols.
It was deemed a legal responsibility considering the human rights act says you have a right to your possessions.
With the smoking ban government have taken away the livelihood and means of income from landlords and their servants. They should be compensated. It may have been an indirect consequence of the ban but it is still happening.
Smokeless I agree with what you say however it would appear Smokers dont have any human rights or civil liberties, they have even been denied the right to their own club in this country. In russia you can more a less do what you want in this country supposed to be the birth place of democracy it gets more like Stalins russia every day.
To keep you in good humour watch some of these Hamlet adverts they are a scream.
Smokless a truly brilliant piece by Colin Grainger of Freedom2choose.info
An Open Letter To ALL Politicians
Colin Grainger
12th December 2007.
It strikes me that I usually comment on news stories using either disbelief, or outrage, or sarcasm, or disgust, or sadness, or humour. Although we discuss solutions to the smoker ban within the Forum, those ideas rarely make it to our “front page”. I usually fight fire with fire. You know the format by now; the Health lobbies produce a study, we read it, and debunk it. They make ads for TV that are scientifically incorrect, so we get hold of the ASA and have them removed. They run rigged polls on their websites, so we let them know that we know they are rigging the polls, and the polls get removed. For far too long they have misinformed, lied and cheated. Anti-smokers regularly quote Roy Castle as being a victim of second hand smoke. This, of course, is another big fat lie. One of our members, also an entertainer, regularly witnessed Mr Castle smoking cigars. I just wonder why this fact is not on the Foundations website?
In an effort to fight fire with water, I thought it might be useful to show you some of our thinking. You politicians prove time and time again that you have lost the skill of independent thought and, as we know, you routinely listen to minority groups and take what they say as gospel. All minorities are represented, to a lesser or greater degree, in parliament. All minorities except one, that is.
Smokers.
Since July 1st 2007 all smokers have been forced to smoke outside bars, cafes, clubs, restaurants, casinos and bingo halls. Four months later, the Hospitality Industry is reaping the whirlwind. Genting International (a gaming company) has lost £130 million in the last four months. Hundreds of millions have been wiped off the share value of ALL Pubco’s, their headlines tell a different story, mostly about how welcome the ban is, but their empty pubs and their stock value tell the truth. The Bingo Association state that they are set to lose over one third of their bingo halls. They currently have just over six hundred bingo halls and around 234 of them are doomed. Hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people condemned to isolation. Thousands of jobs lost.
Anti-smokers, non-smokers, asthmatics, and God knows who else all pledged to rush to the newly created smoke free venues. Almost all Licensees are asking: “Where are you?”. So are we. We want to know why you moaned, whined, and bleated for these venues to be smoke free and now you stay away from them in your millions. The smoker ban has failed on so many levels the mind boggles.
So, we have established there is a problem. Smokers discriminated against because they are not recognised as a minority group, venues empty, anti/non smokers not visiting them, societies fractured, businesses losing more revenue than they can stand, and, crucially, no real health benefits are visible. So eager were the Scottish Executive to "prove" the ban was a success, they allowed an unpublished, non peer-reviewed study to be touted as "evidence" that their smoker ban reduced heart attacks by 17%. It took us mere minutes to discover that the "study" was a work of fiction. Lies, based on earlier lies serve only to breed bigger, more spectacular lies. Despite all the lies since 1954, the worldwide total for deaths due to second hand smoke remains at ZERO. Not one body can be produced. SHS deaths are a myth parroted by zealots.
That points to a spectacular failure in our book.
How do we get out of this mess? How do we avoid creating even more hardship for businesses and their customers, particularly since we seem poised to enter a recession? How do we stop those 234 bingo halls from closing down? How do we stop over 200 pubs per month closing down?
It might look like a two pipe problem, as Sherlock may have said, but it isn’t. Only an irresponsible politician will stand by and allow the haemorraghing to continue.
The Health Act 2006 (Smoking ban) allows for amendments without recreating or repealing the law.
We call on the government to action one (or more) of the following:
· Create a Licensing system whereby venue operators can apply for a license to allow smoking on their premises
· Introduce a Regulated Indoor Air Quality Standard
· Allow owners to decide whether smoking can take place in their private properties
· Allow the free market to decide what they prefer. Smoke free legislation works for some, but not others
· IMMEDIATELY scrap that part of the legislation that insists that human beings are not entitled to be protected from the elements. Animals get 95% enclosed sheds, we get a mere 50%.
We recognise that the smoker ban was ill-thought out. By now you should also accept that you have made a monumental mistake. You claim that the ban was to “protect the workforce” yet all you have done so far is create misery for the hospitality people, and their customers. The scientific debate on second hand smoke is NOT over. You have been conned by a well funded group of control freaks. We have mountains of evidence that says SHS kills no-one. The "overwhelming evidence" is on our side, not theirs. You have divided our society, and you have openly endorsed the vilification of 15 million people. You have set non smokers against smokers. People have died as a result of this spiteful legislation. People have been attacked, drink spikings have risen by 150% since the smoker ban was enacted in Scotland. Women raped, senior citizens have contracted hypothermia, a nurse was forced to leave the safety of her hospital grounds and was stabbed to death, a non-smoking ex-boxer was shot to death, customers smoking outside a pub were shot at, and others have had stones and bottles hurled at them. Insults to smokers standing outside these pubs and clubs are now an everyday occurrence. Several Licensees have been attacked and injured. Complaints of noise have increased exponentially, local councils, when left to their own devices damage business with unnecessary red-tape or refuse to sanction the erection of smoking shelters.
This could all have been avoided. We cannot understand why you felt unable to follow the lead of Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Malta, Slovakia, Germany, Finland or Russia.
All include the one element you left out: choice.
We have no hard evidence that smoker prevalence is falling because of the ban you enacted, on the contrary, we know that smoking has increased in both Ireland and in Scotland. Much to their chagrin.
Spain, as an example, has reduced its smoking population by 500,000. It beggars belief that you created a facsimile of two bans that clearly weren’t working. You copied Scotland, who had copied Ireland. Ireland now has over 20,000 new smokers, and she has lost in excess of 1700 pubs, and they continue to close at a rate of over one per day.
We ask you now to act. Your own surveys (ONS 2005, 2006 & 2007) clearly showed that the majority (63%, 65% & 67%) wanted restrictions, not an all out ban.
The economic damage can end and the social damage must end.
You politicians (collectively) have erred.
We (smokers and tolerant non-smokers) are prepared to forgive.
But only if you do the right thing. Get smokers and their friends back inside.
It is interesting to note Donnie, that Rank are reporting huge losses today in their Mecca Bingo Halls. Well done MPs, and this Goverment. This Country has gone to Rack and Ruin.
With this Goverment in Power, we are ALL Canoeists that have gone missing since 1997, perhaps we should have all claimed off the Insurers, for the lies and deceit that comes out of labours mouths!!!
Deal, it is so depressing, yeah think I might buy my self a canoe, sounds as if it pays off. By the way bugsbunny has been having a ding-dong of a time.
Check this out Dawn Primarolo gave out this figures the other day.
"The Department awarded a grant of £2,670,000 to Cancer Research UK (CRUK) under section 64 of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968 to fund the charity's Light and Mild campaign in 2003-04. A further of £300,000 grant was made in 2006-07 for CRUK's media campaign on the harmful constituents of secondhand smoke.
The Department awarded a grant of £5,000,000 to British Heart Foundation (BHF) under section 64 of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968 to fund the charity's media campaign in 2004-05 on heart disease caused by smoking. A further grant of £4,000,000 grant was made in 2005-06 to BHF for a media campaign highlighting the dangers of smoking and heart disease."
The Department's grants to Action on Smoking Health (ASH) under section 64 of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968 are set out in the following table.
That means ASH have had nearly a million pounds of taxpayers money in the last few years, and on top of that who also funds ASH, Cancer Research and British Heart Foundation.
These so called charities spend most of this money from what I can see on advertising, and of course they avoid paying any tax, sick or what whilst the rest of us are taxed to the hilt.
These so called charities spend most of this money from what I can see on advertising, and of course they avoid paying any tax, sick or what whilst the rest of us are taxed to the hilt.
Quik Edit:
No Donnie these so called charities are run by directors, with a huge salary, and expensive cars!
Yeah and I bet they are all linked to those pharmacuetical companies that make nicotine replacements which have over a 90% failure rate. Talk about greasing palms, god the state of our politics is diabolical
I seem to recall some years ago, reading in the papers; that for every £1 donated, that the charity only receives 1p of that money. The rest of it goes towards the business costs?
Deal, yes it you check out these so call charities, most of the money is spent on salaries and advertising, the people that need the help see very little of it.
Heres the lastest on the business front, if it wasnt for the fact that people are going to lose their jobs and possibly homes I would say it would serve Labour right if pubs and clubs just went bust - it looks like thats happening any way.
Rank scraps dividend and slashes budget as bingo group's numbers suffer
The company, which has been hit hard by the smoking ban and by restrictions on high-jackpot machines, announced a package of measures yesterday aimed at preserving its cash resources and stabilising trading.
The Question I ask Donnie, are our Conservative MPs Courageous or Wimps? I go to a premier League Football Match today, and what comes over the Tannoy."This is a Non Smoking Venue, and Council Officials are on hand to give on spot fines!
I love it, by christ I detest this Bliddy Country. So is the opposition Mice or Men, and I make no apologies for my views. This Country has had it!!!
Deal, pathetic isnt it, like living in Korea with messages booming from loud speakers. The Council Officials bit gave me a laugh, the only people from the council that can issue fines are the Environmental Health Officers, I suppose they got a free ticket to the match no doubt.
Sorry to say Conservatives no longer seem to have either the backbone or the bottle to stand up for peoples freedom and equal rights, and property rights. I can remember the time when Conservatives were realy strong in this area. Bet Margaret Thatcher wouldnt have had Dennis standing outside his club freezing his bits off - hey what.
If you just stand back for one minute and look at the facts it realy is quite frightening, what have Labour and Liberal MPs done.
1) banned a legal product on private premises
Can you tell me of any other legal product that has been banned on private premises?
2) If tobacco is as lethal as they try to tell you it is then why is it on sale?
3) They have the front to put millions of people out onto the street, including the elderly and the sick in freezing conditions, wind and rain ect, and then have the gall to complain about lost revenue from cigarettes that are being bought on the black market.
4) They created the smuggling and black market by making cigarettes that expensive
Deal like you I think this country has become the pits. David Cameron seems like a nice enough guy, but he obviously dosent believe in individual freedom and peoples property rights otherwise he would be standing up for them.
Originally I did think he was someone that believed in real freedom, but it seems I was wrong. Until I see them standing up for all peoples rights including smokers rights, I will not be renewing my membership.
Well Donnie over the years I have canvassed the Conservative Party at Election times. The Elderlys views were taken into account. We took them to the polling stations. But now I have decided NOT to vote at the next election, unless Cameron sees sense. And I honestly dont think he has any, or else he would say outright that he WILL free Britain from these A******, that have ruined this country over the past 10 years with Bulls***!, and Communism!
Donnie for the first time in my life, Im hoping now for a hung Parliament, with Cameron as PM, and it will also give him time to come to his senses, and think of the Electorate, and freeing Britain!!!
Deal, well as Gordon has not given us the referendum that was promised on Europe, and as he and his party have now removed private property rights, and as the cost of everything is soaring, my gas and electric bills are more than my rates, how pensioners manage I dont know, I am totally convinced they will be booted out at the next election, my predicament is anything any better going to come in, hung parliament or not.
