Why do I object so strenuously to the smoking ban that has been brought into effect today in England.
Well for starters a total smoking ban was not in any political parties manifesto at the last election.
The property rights of publicans have been totally trampled over, pubs are privately owned not publically owned, the public are invited in not forced in whether smoking takes place on the premises belongs to the owner and no one else
The democratic rights of members of clubs was removed by this government they were refused the right to vote on what their club should be - some democracy
The elderly who belong to clubs are to be ejected out onto the pavement in all weathers, and put in danger of muggers beggars belief, this includes ex servicemen/women of the British Legion
Hopsitals are ejecting their smoking patients out of the grounds (open air) onto the pavement complete with drips, crutches and wheelchairs. Such a caring community
When your democratic right to vote has been removed you are no longer living in a democracy but a dictatorship.
I will not set foot in a pub/club again until this ban has been amended to include smoking and non smoking rooms + ventilation, the right of membership clubs to have a democratic vote and the removal of brutal health officials from the NHS a so called caring people.
I agree with the Starter of this Thread. I am proud to be a BabyBoomer, Im proud of what Winston Churchill did for us. Im proud of what Margaret Thatcher did for us. Conservatives have Values. This Communist Labour Goverments, take away our Freedom; Our Rights! Our Leisure. Now I honestly hope Pubs, Clubs, and Bingo Halls have to Close, I will Drink, Smoke at home and do what I want!
Yes I feel this Country has to change. All David Cameron has to do when he gets in Power. Is to have Pubs/Clubs with Smoking, and No Smoking Rooms. Then everybody is happy!
Also with People giving up Smoking, where is all the Tax going to come from, that Labour has enjoyed over the years?
Posted on the other site in answer to Astrocat, think it needs to be here too
In our area one of the latest planning applications;
A pub has applied for an outside 'gazebo style' building for smokers. I will not object.
Separate from the pub I see no harm in this and expect other areas could do the same.
If like me you do not smoke, will not allow smoking in your house, then keep out.
But notice the tactic used to deceive Parliament and Public:
Ban or no ban
Reminiscent of:
With us or against us
It would be quite easy to ban smoking in 90% of pubs & clubs. You just get the magistrates to decide which. Individual pubs could vote, collect signatures etc to present as evidence.
Well I can see Winston Churchill going into a Gazebo, with his Cigar! I wont go into a Gazebo either! Clubs, Pubs and Bingo Halls will be like the Shops, turn into Charity Shops!
Also whilst im on the subject, I can see more youngsters on the Streets causing more havoc. Smoking and Drinking, and who is going to stop them? Our local paper stated our Police Forces are over stretched, Police officers on light duties or off sick; more than on the beat??
Unfortunately this government has not finished with smokers yet they are now determined to control what you do in your house and I am not joking read below
"Going for smoke: Today's ban is just the start. Could your home be next?
The man behind the ban on smoking in pubs and enclosed public spaces hasn't finished yet. He wants to extend prohibition to private homes. Jonathan Owen reports on a smoking revolution "
Few people will be implementing the smoking ban in England today with less enthusiasm than the Queen. Although she has consented to have no-smoking signs erected in the public areas of Buckingham Palace to comply with the new regulations, she has made it clear to courtiers that she would have preferred to continue to offer visitors the use of ash-trays rather than outlaw the practice.
"HM is a confirmed non-smoker but she is also a great libertarian and has no time for political correctness," says my man at the Palace. "She has always made cigarettes available to her guests. I might add that she also refuses to wear a hard hat when she is out riding and she refuses, too, to wear a seat belt when she travels by car."
No-smoking signs are already up at the entrances used by members of the public when they receive honours, but there will be none at those used by the Queen, members of the Royal Family or their senior aides. "She has agreed to comply, but can't bear the Government meddling with every aspect of an individual's life," adds the courtier.
and this is what Rod Liddle thinks of Liam Donaldson – brightened my day apart from the stealth tax of Gordons.
Smoking ban zealot is bad for my health
"I intend to spend the rest of today handing out free cigarettes near the home of the chief medical officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, to highlight the grave dangers of Donaldson-related illnesses and passive Donaldson.
Sir Liam is the chap who believes today’s unjust and draconian smoking ban is “only a start” and wishes to pursue smokers into the family home. Despite evidence to the contrary, Donaldson believes passive smoking kills millions of people; but then his career has been built upon scaring people.
In 2005, for example, he predicted 50,000 Britons would die in an avian flu pandemic, and a death toll of 750,000 was “not impossible”. The total deaths from avian flu worldwide stand at 191, none of them in Britain.
I apologize to Graham for my long links but I have not yet got the hang of shortening them within the URL so you will have to bear with me Im a baby boomer still catching up.
'Gazebo style' was the term I used as I did not have time to source the application.
As I see it this is partly a service to their customers and also a way to prevent them going out of business.
They are trying to find a solution and I would not object
So Gordon "Clown" Brown has slashed £2 Billion off the NHS Budget as Chancellor, before he moved Next Door, should be a Brilliant PMQ time on Wednesday from Our David??
With respect lizabeth, how can you object? Smoking has been going on Socially since the year dot. Its only scientist/doctors whom have condemned it. And the same has happened with Alcohol, killing us by our Kidneys. Cant we live, and enjoy ourselves anymore. No say the Labour Goverment, you will do as we tell you, whether you like it or not!
So Gordon "Clown" Brown has slashed £2 Billion off the NHS Budget as Chancellor, before he moved Next Door, should be a Brilliant PMQ time on Wednesday from Our David??
Well lets hope DC is well informed, I am sure he is, he hasnt possibly got time to read all the threads on this forum but somebody must be taking notes.
Just like the queen my mother never smoked a cigarette in her life but everytime someone visited her out came an ashtray. She died aged 84 not from passive smoking!
Donnie I agree with you 100% He has the whole of the Electorate at/in his palm for the 2009 General Election! He can Win/Will Win if he listens to us. I hope he does for All Our Sakes!
All we ask for is for Britain to once again have Great before. Its not too much to ask. Its not to much to ask that people once again respect one another, instead of reporting, and detesting one another; is it? This Goverment are living a false time, People are losing their homes etc and their Self Esteem. Come on David get rid of Browm, we all got rid of Blair??
DealOrNoDeal, I think there will be an election next year. IF DC stands up for all peoples rights not just some he has every chance of winning. Smokers are living through very rough times at the moment, snitch lines, under cover smoke police, demonised, denormalised. Well I say we Smoke we Vote politicians had better remember that. I wouldnt mind but smoking is perfectly legal and they say that half of the House of Commons smoke cannabis which is illegal. I was reading the other day that someone is bringing out an electic cigarette (not big pharma) that works with water, what are they going to do then, it dosent give off smoke so it wont be illegal.
I want to see David restore respectability and trust to politics and proper democracy for all people, if he goes down the same PC road as Blair he wont get my vote, even though I am a paid up member of the conservative party.
Chin up at least we were brought up to respect all people not like a lot today.
OTOH, if you can't go for a few hours without smoking then you might wonder what it's doing to you.
Dave with respect thats not the point at issue. Anti smokers will tell you that 2 out of every 3 smokers will die from smoking, sounds dreadful dosent it, however the bit that they omit is that they are aged 75 and over. You see these people are excellent at twisting things.
I do agree however with your comment
Quote:
Ban or no ban
Reminiscent of:
With us or against us
You are exactly right, in Nu Labours World we have all got to be the same, think the same and any decent you are an enemy.
I abhor Social Engineering, smoking might not be the best thing that you can do health wise but does that mean then because I am doing something that someone else disapproves of I should be subjected to persecution, bullying and demonisation. In a civilised society the answer would be no, however we no longer live in a civilised society in this country and respect for people that are different has gone out of the window.
I still think that Brown could go to the country in October if the opinion polls and the honeymoon goes well over the first 100 days in which case I believe that Dave's best strategy would be to:
1. Stay on the centre ground.
2. Expose Labour's failings.
3. Give the power back to the people.
Lets hope he does go to country in Oct. - theres 14 million smokers and a couple of million pub/clubs that won't have forgiven the fact that the smoking ban in England was brought in under his watch - not Tony's.
yeah my cats are passive smokers too - I think it's fair swop -I have to put up with cat hair all the place and the occasional flea but at least they don't stink the house out as much as dogs
astrocat it will be interesting to watch the Cherie Blair senario, her professional standing could well be on the line here if she loses this case, the third judicial review to be launched
Deal - my cat's don't bring home mice or any other wildlife although they're kept busy with the flies at the moment, but I used to have gun dogs and no matter how much I tried to keep them smell free, they had a very distinctive smell to them. I didn't notice it too much but I know that other people did - a bit like a non smoker entering a smoking environment - if you smoke you don't notice the smell of other peoples cigarettes.
Donnie - I can't abide Cherie Blair and the irony of a confirmed antagonist of smoking having to defend and argue the human rights of a nightclub owner in direct contradiction of her husband's buddy Lord Falconer affords me sublime pleasure
Donnie,Smokeless, many of you, including me, are fighting the same fight. How we live our lives should be our choice so long as it does not affect others.
Quote:
I want to see David restore respectability and trust to politics and proper democracy for all people
Restoring trust will not be easy but he needs to be in power to even begin and yet he has to gain our trust beforehand!
Nevetheless it can be done.
Is it right, when Clubs are not in agreement with the Smoking Ban - that on Friday at our Club, that the Club said Any Members caught Smoking on the premises from 1st July will be banned for life? Is it any wonder many of us now will not be going to the Club from 1st July so much! Even more so they have erected a Shelter outside at the back. Nice for us Pensioners in the Winter Time. Get Bronchitis and Pneumonia at the expense of Dictatorship? Nearly 85% said they will not go to the Club in the Winter, and not so much in the Summer!
So again I can see Clubs and Pubs closing, and the Off Licences having a profitable time! And what else will it bring youngsters onto the Streets, Smoking and Cans Of Lager.
Who are going to stop it, certainly not the Police, because thanks to this Goverment. We have less Police on the beat, and they are busy with Criminals Reid let out early!
Bad times ahead for Britain I fear, and the next Conservative Goverment has to put all this right!
We need to Revolt! They think we are revolting!
Sorry but my uncle, and thousands of others,captured at Dunkirk,and other places, spent years in war camps to prevent this.
We won that war but are in danger of losing the battles now to such as E-ON(Powergen)and RWE(npower)as a result of the DTI and Treasury introducing the ROC system to kickstart the renewables industry..
The gold rush.the scam, the half truths, but you've heard it all before.
Dunno about 1st July being the date democracy died, to me it was in 1996.
So what if I die from smoking, I won't be a burden on the country by being on state pension for decades.
Frankly I don't want to live long enough to be a dribbling cabbage sat in a commode chair all day in some state funded old peoples home.
I will top myself long before that and have contingency plans in place. And it definitely won't be with a gun so I won't dirty my sport in the manner that I go.
Smoking is an addiction, it's no good just saying you will not do this. It's also a pleasure to some, as is going down the pub and socialising with friends. I will no longer go to the pub and socialise because of the ban.
So gov have taken one of my pleasures away (add that to taking my pleasure of shooting pistols). I tighten my belt and become a recluse again, I've been there before till my kids noticed signs of depression and made me go out occasionally.
Politicians from Lab and Con are messing up my lifes little pleasures would it be any wonder if I swung in a different direction?
Smokeless
I have sympathy and empathy and can only say stay with it. Don't become a recluse.
Enjoy your shooting and rest assured that whether the issue is shooting, smoking, gigantic wind turbines near people's homes, we have learned the hard way what this government is really about. There is only one solution.....
Smokeless you are not alone, remember there are 12 to 14 million of us out there that all feel the same and hate this government. I am determined that this government will not destroy the traditions of this country of which some are tolerance of one another, a level playing field and not meddling in what people choose to do in their spare time. this is a particularly good article and what about this for equal rights.
At the King's Arms pub in Arundel, West Sussex, landlord Charlie Malcolmson forced non-smokers to stand outside for ten minutes every half-hour alongside the smokers as the only fair way to treat all his customers.
Further to my above post when I hear anti smokers saying well I can now take the kids to the pub and we can have a meal, I have a particular wry smile to myself, I wonder if they will still be saying that when they have got raving alcoholic teenagers on their hands self taught by themselves - poetic justice I say.
In my opinion pubs are places for adults not children, if you want to take a child for a meal there are plenty of other places to go and if you realy had the childs welfare at heart you wouldnt be taking them into pubs and clubs. Just my opinion
Lizabeth well to start with 3 Judicial Reviews have been lodged against the government on the smoking ban issue.
Predictably Alan Johnson who voted against the ban has now changed his tune and states 80% of people are for it. that is the first lie, the ONS poll the one Lord Foul Faulkner with held showed that only 33% wanted a total ban, the other 67% wanted smoking and non smoking areas - and then they wonder why you dont trust politicians! - because ones like faulkner lie, cheat and twist things. I detest the man.
In law I am sure that if every other body of people can have a club of their own, there is no reason why smokers carnt have their own staffed by smokers or non smokers who are not bothered by smoking. Myself I am only asking for the same equal rights as everyone else has.
We will first have to wait for the reviews to take place but at every opportunity I get I post or verbally lambast the nasty, spiteful, petty ways this government interferes in peoples lives.
I dont have a problem with non smoking venues at all I think that people who dont smoke have every right to non smoking venues, however by the same yardstick smokers should also have the right to smoking venues as well, its called equality in a democratic society something that this current government dosent believe in. I also firmly believe that members of clubs should be able to have their democratic right to vote on their clubs, and private property owners should decide what happens on their premises not government.
Passive smoking is the biggest lie going, Ive got all the reports, how did we all survive 400 years of people smoking.
If the reviews fail there are other avenues at the European Courts that can be taken as did workers in norway. We will see.
What I would like to see is David Cameron take a firm stand on bans like these and how they impeach on peoples lives. he seems a nice enough guy but is he stong enough to stand up to these people I dont know we will see.
Smoking may not be the most healthy thing you can do but neither is eating at McDonalds but do they stop people eating there No, well for the minute No.
Just the same with energy. It is the lies I fight.
We have dozens, probably hundreds in the UK of groups against wind turbines yet the planning is stacked against the people....They can't get the money to fight, about £35000 for a Judicial Review, I believe. The irony is Cherie said we should not put them on the hills, Blair's agent
(speaking I understand for Blair) said they should not go near houses. and yet Cherie can ask £20000 for an after dinner speech. Maybe we should write one for her.
Quote:
Passive smoking is the biggest lie going, Ive got all the reports, how did we all survive 400 years of people smoking
.
My parents smoked all the time I was at home but it had no effect unless to turn both my brother and myself into non-smokers!
Donnie, David Cameron; I say this. It is up to us whether we go to Clubs/ Pubs and Socialise. Or we Bankrupt them, saving Money on One Arm Bandits etc. We stay at home and Socialise with our Friends and Neighbours. We can Brew our own Beer, Buy Beer; Play Cards and listen to what we like. This Goverment will not beat us, "The Baby Boomers". Yes I detest Labour, and all they stand for!
Lets stay at home and Close Britain Up!
I hope David Cameron reads, and replies; because he is our only hope for Britain to Prosper, and Re-Introduce Freedom! He can listen, and get a good Majority in Parliament
Dealornodeal actually you are so spot on. You may not know it but that is what a lot of people in Scotland are doing right now. One guy is making a fortune on ferrying people to one anothers house parties at the weekend. they have converted garages and outhouses, buy in bulk from the supermarket, install music and TV, heating and you are away, plus take it in turns. We can make our own entertainment.
I know there are a lot of sceptics that dont believe me when i say hundreds of pubs will shut, but believe me they will, it happened in Ireland, its happened in Scotland and it will happen here. Dont believe what you read in the papers the media wont report the losses to pubs, Punch are already getting rid of a 1,000 pubs in England because they know they wont survive and anyway the type of pub that has now become a resturant is not my kind and I wouldnt want to go there anyway. I prefer the traditional english pub, cards, darts, dominos, quiz ect with good witty conversation.
Remember you are not alone there are millions of us whenever you feel down go to freedom2choose.co.uk you will be amongst friends, publicans, non smokers and smokers who represent the right to choose. You can blog and rant all you want there no one minds. this group of people is infact led by a non smoker and a brilliant person to. Chin Up
lizabeth, deal, canvas, Tizzy, Joe Jackson has put out a letter on the internet to all Smokers, please read it and you will see where i am coming from.
Before you read it remember that Scoth and ASH are one and the same, with members on the same boards, they are in the pay of the big pharmacuetical companies as is WHO. These people are paid big big money by pharmas
"This is not a conspiracy theory. The antismoking movement has phenomenal momentum because (a) it is being given a free ride by politicians and media, and (b) it is stinking rich. Pharmaceutical money is a big reason, but there are others, including punitive taxation and a little thing called the Master Settlement Agreement, struck between the tobacco industry and US states in 1999, which gives American antismokers alone close to a $1 billion a year to play with. It's not surprising that more and more interests have climbed on the antismoking bandwagon. What is surprising is that so many people persist in seeing it as a righteous crusade. I repeat: these people are nannies and bullies, and unelected and unaccountable bodies like the WHO should not be dictating policy to democratically-elected governments, especially when, in the case of smoking bans, their own research has proven that 'secondhand smoke' doesn't hurt anyone"
From the great John Brignell – ace mathematician who's got a brain – absolutely brilliant
Just some parts
"We have had a decade of attrition in which the Government, with a new law every four hours, has chipped away at personal freedom from every direction, until the once fiercely independent mongrel island race have lost their will to resist."
"The quality of our politicians is at an all-time low. They are venal, corrupt and lacking in judgement. As a class they are despised by the electorate, who now have no real choice"
"In February, the Australian Bureau of Statistics published a national health survey taken in 1989-90. To much surprise, it revealed that, generally, the health of smokers is better than that of many former or non-smokers. Unsurprisingly, the worst sufferers from hypertension caused by stress were the ex-smokers (16.1 per cent) and the “never smoked” (13.4 per cent); the steady smokers registered 7.4 per cent.
It is well known that smoking , particularly at work, relieves stress, and to outlaw it increases demands on hospital beds. Even the US Surgeon General, in 1964, recognised that Parkinson’s disease (a degenerative disorder of the nervous system) occurred at around half the rate among smokers. In the International Journal of Epidemiology , in 1991, a review of 11 studies showed that non-smokers suffered 50 per cent more Alzheimer’s disease than smokers. And researchers at Erasmus University Medical School , Rotterdam , found that more non-smokers had early-onset dementia than smokers.
In the Daily Telegraph, Dr. James Le Fanu wrote: “Smokers have a 50 per cent reduced risk of developing Alzheimer’s and the more smoked, the greater the protection.” The New England Journal of Medicine. in 1985, reported that endometrial cancer of the womb occurs at around 50 per cent the rate among smokers as non-smokers. Colon cancer and ulcerative colitis also seem to be about 30 and 50 per cent respectively less frequent among smokers according to articles in the Journal of the American Medical Association and in the New England Journal of Medicine, in 1981 and 1983. The American government’s first Health and Nutrition Examination Survey has found that osteo-arthritis is five times less likely to occur among heavy smokers than non-smokers.
Well at least there is one MP who had some brains, pity about a large number of others.
Ventilation not regulation on smoking
"Anti-smoking groups have been described as "zealots" by opponents who yesterday warned ministers against dictating how people should live their lives.
Former Newcastle City councillor and Welsh MP Lembit Opik, who will be voting against his party's line when MPs are given a free vote on the issue next week, said smoking should be a matter of choice, not regulation."
In reply to the letter received from Conservative Headquarters for donations, I will not be donating unless I hear David Cameron say he is going to support the equal rights of smokers and allow them their own facilities.
I don't see where people are coming from that are against this ban... Yes, you are perfectly within your rights to live how you want to. But when the way you want to live your life starts affecting me and the way that I live mine then that's when I have a problem.
I suffer from asthma and I love the idea of this ban.
