Deal having seen the news today I now understand that eating red meat, bacon, fast foods, processed foods, sugary drinks and drinking alchol causes cancer - my point why worry about smoking or SHS if you believe the health experts you are going to die of cancer anyway from what you eat and drink - so why does smoking matter?
Deal, the next time you get into a debate about SHS ask them to name 3 people that have died from it, with death certificate stating that.
Check out Dave Hitts site, an ex smoker who smokes the occasional cigar
"Our conversations are the final step in a project of mine. I've been asking the same question (name three people) to a variety of organizations and individuals. You were the only one who supplied three names, and your choices are quite revealing. One of them is unverifiable. Another, despite the fact that juries love ailing individuals and hate tobacco companies, was unable to convince a jury that his illness had anything to do with SHS. And the first one you cited was an outright fraud - she had pancreatic cancer which spread to her lungs, and she tried to cash in by blaming tobacco.
So thanks, James, for proving what I've known all along. You and your ilk are making a very good living by telling lies about SHS and vilifying smokers. The bans you promote put thousands of small business men and women out of work, all to protect someone from a non-existent danger. And worst of all, you've provided nannies and busybodies of every ilk with a blueprint on how to use Big Brother and Lawyers to interfere with every aspect of everyone's life.
There are all kinds of evils in the world, but the very worst comes from those who sacrifice freedom and facts "for our own good," and for their own profit.
there was absolutely no reason to have a total smoking ban - Ah but ASH will say to protect the health of bar workers, ventilation would have achieved this and what about the health an 80 year old made to stand outside a bingo hall or a pub in all weathers dosent their health and enjoyment count! This 80 year old would have been of the generation that fought for freedom!
Bingo hall profits are going up in smoke as the cigarette ban begins to bite in the region
http://tinyurl.com/2spvsn
Well I am sitting at home with a nice drink, in the warm and having a smoke - they can get stuffed if they think I am prepared to turn out on a winters night to sit outside and get pneumonia - if I am going to snuff it, it might as well be in the warm
A long and tortuous thread, but one with a very clear message; if we look through the smoke we begin to realise that sadness and uncertainty has crept into mechanics of western democracy. We hear from the mouths of politicians that public opinion is paramount, OK, but what about the opinion of the public; put that way the politician becomes mute.
No knowledge is no excuse in the modern framework. Elected members in a public framework, chosen by the public are required to fill their obligations and the public must have control of their accountability.
Democracy today seems to mean a scramble for the votes of the people in a heist of propaganda and tumult, then forget the people.
Yes Donnie I believe democracy has died and we are left with 'I'm elected, now obey mentality. This selfish egotistic control of peoples lives is wrong and we are empowered to change it, we must change it.
This selfish egotistic control of peoples lives is wrong and we are empowered to change it, we must change it.
Scrubsupwell I couldnt agree more and yes things have got to change. Politicians in this country have forgotton what liberty, freedom and choice means. We are adults most of us are quite capable of making our own choices, I am sick of being dictated to by MPs after they have been voted in. I want to hear David Cameron state that smokers have the right to their own club just the same as poles, irish, black, brown, muslim, jew, christian ect, ect.
Some one has just told me this joke which did make me laugh a lot but at the same time it makes me sad to think that elderly smokers are being ejected outside in all weathers, we have lost all sense of decency and respect on this country.
Jane and Arlene
Jane and Arlene are outside their nursing home, having a drink and a smoke, when it starts to rain. Jane pulls out a condom, cuts off the end, puts It over her cigarette, and continues smoking.
Arlene: What in the hell is that?
Jane: A condom. This way my cigarette doesn't get wet.
Arlene: Where did you get it?
Jane: You can get them at any drugstore.
The next day, Arlene hobbles herself into the local drugstore and announces to the pharmacist that she wants a box of condoms.
The pharmacist, obviously embarrassed, looks at her kind of strangely (she is after all, over 80 years of age), but very delicately asks what brand of condom she prefers.
"Doesn't matter Sonny, as long as it fits on a Camel."
Excellent letter today in the Oxford mail, pretty much sums up the situation.
"Fears grow for empty pubs
I could not agree more with Tony Anchors (Oxford Mail, October 26) that the non-smoking laws are bringing about the demise of the traditional English pub.
This law has done more damage to the pub's atmosphere than any of the temperance societies of the 19th and early 20th centuries."
http://tinyurl.com/2jqk8u
Before this ban was enacted ASH's statement read "Smoking bans are good for business", their statement has now changed to "Smoking Bans are not about business but health", funny how the lie can change to suit the situation.
Excellent letter today in the Oxford mail, pretty much sums up the situation.
"Fears grow for empty pubs
I could not agree more with Tony Anchors (Oxford Mail, October 26) that the non-smoking laws are bringing about the demise of the traditional English pub.
This law has done more damage to the pub's atmosphere than any of the temperance societies of the 19th and early 20th centuries."
http://tinyurl.com/2jqk8u
Before this ban was enacted ASH's statement read "Smoking bans are good for business", their statement has now changed to "Smoking Bans are not about business but health", funny how the lie can change to suit the situation.
Excellent letter today in the Oxford mail, pretty much sums up the situation.
"Fears grow for empty pubs
I could not agree more with Tony Anchors (Oxford Mail, October 26) that the non-smoking laws are bringing about the demise of the traditional English pub.
This law has done more damage to the pub's atmosphere than any of the temperance societies of the 19th and early 20th centuries."
http://tinyurl.com/2jqk8u
Before this ban was enacted ASH's statement read "Smoking bans are good for business", their statement has now changed to "Smoking Bans are not about business but health", funny how the lie can change to suit the situation.
A pub landlord who allowed smokers to light up on his premises has been fined in court for flouting the smoking ban in public places.
Hamish Howitt today became the first publican in the country to be convicted of breaching the smoking legislation, which came into effect on July 1.
The 55-year-old was fined £500 and ordered to pay £2,000 prosecution costs at Blackpool Magistrates' Court, after District Judge Peter labelled Howitt's campaign "silly, misguided and pointless".
But the penalty has not dissuaded the owner of the Happy Scots Bar, who has been a staunch critic of the new legislation and even set up a political party, Fight Against Government Suppression (Fags).
Outside the court Howitt, a non-smoker, said: "We're all going back to the Happy Scots Bar now for a smoke.
Canvas I note they dropped the first 7 charges now theres a surprise, they were obviously trying to bancrupt the man. Ive said it before and I will say it again, Smoking Bans are a gross infringement of private property rights, the decision as to whether smoking takes place on the premises should be the owners and no one elses, definitely not governments.
I read an interesting story the other day carnt remember the writer but he was talking or should I say writing about Labour MPs. He said they voted for a hunting ban defending the foxes right to life, but then voted to support abortion not defending a humans right to life in the womb. I myself believe that this should be a womans choice and people have not way of knowing what circumstances have caused this decision to be made but I thought the parallel was excellent in the fact that some MPs value the life of a fox above that of an unborn human and some dont think smokers should have any rights at all.
So how are they going to enforce that then, put narks in your home as well as the pub - think I will emigrate to North Korea they have more freedom there than smokers do here
Your right Canvas and just like a shotgun license you will have to keep ya fags in secure box with at least a 5 lever lock which will be inspected by a government officer.
But I would expect a full ban like they did with the pistols. Except for a priviliged few. Perhaps just politicians in their special house or when leaning out of train windows.
Or make it mainland Britain only like the pistols so the rich can pop over to NI or the IOM for that Hamlet moment.
Does this opposition party, ie the conservative party agree then with this goverment on the smoking ban. yes or no. In other words, do they want Britain to be free, or run under dictatorship, yes or no. Its a perfectly simple question for DC to answer?
And with regards for smoking in the freedom of our own home, I would carry on regardless, and Donnie, we will probably fill the prisons up, whilst the Criminals are set free, because I would refuse to pay a fine!
Point being Deal how on earth do they think they could enforce it or are they looking for your 2yr old to snitch on you - these people are the absolute zealots, the tobacco taliban they will go to any lengths to stop you doing what you enjoy and to do this they will use any lie.
Nice little quote here from Adolf Hitler
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed"
This is what Labour and Liberals are doing, what I want is to see David Cameron prepared to reverse these things or is he just talk and no action?
Deal Weatherspoons (carnt stand the places) are suffering
"UPDATE 1-Wetherspoon chilly on outlook as smoking ban hurts"
"Shares in the firm, which along with the rest of the UK pub sector have been steadily sliding since May, dropped 3 percent in early trade to a year-low of 488.75 pence."
Hello smokers.
Scrubs love your comment but you would have to keep those cigarettes separate from the matches....
I am incensed at the proposal and I do not and never have smoked. It is a nonsense. My parents smoked so I according to some I should suffer from passive smoking. Yet I have climbed Mount Whitney Kinabalu and Kilimanjaro since I retired.
Woodbines rule ok. (Players and Capstan were too expensive!)
Lizabeth it looks as if the publicans have had enough as they see their businesses going down the pan, picked this up from the Morning Advertiser
"ATTENTION ALL PUB CO LESSEES - we now have 2 major tv stations who have shown an interest in our plight. Now it is down to us as lessees to put our stories forward, we are being given the chance to have our say and for somebody to listen, so the ball has been firmly planted into our court and if we choose to ignore it then we have nobody else to blame but ourselves. All stories, good and bad, can be told through the following sites:
www.lapco.org.uk, http://www.nationalassociationoflicensees.co.uk and through personal e-mail at the following addresses , [email protected] or [email protected]. or [email protected].
This is not a witch hunt and is not designed to bring the Pub Cos down it is to ensure that there is an open and honest view from all angles and then the public can reach their own conclusions when faced with the facts. So if the Pub Cos would like to get involved that would be great, as well as staff and customers. If Ken Nason and Graham Allman would like to give their points of view I would be grateful. Please note that this can be done anonymously if you so wish.
So folks whats it going to be our pubs disappearing into the night or are you ready to stand and fight for what is right!
Deal if I was you dont even consider giving up your pipe read this, bet you wont see this in any ASH or SCOTH propaganda
Health warning: giving up smoking can kill
"But when a smoker gives up that regular regimen, the body cannot adjust. "It is our premise," say the doctors, "that a surge and spurt in re-activation of bodily healing and repair mechanisms of chronic smoke-damaged respiratory epithelia is induced and spurred by an abrupt discontinuation of habit, goes awry, triggering uncontrolled cell division and tumor genesis."
Deal another one on the bring about to bite the dust
Skylark considers closing as smoking ban causes sales slump
"Lynn said: “Before the smoking ban, we were taking between £400 and £500 per day. Yesterday we took £140. My rates are £1000 per month; electricity is £800 per month. There are other bills too. I cannot afford to go on like this. I have been giving it serious thought… more than serious thought. And I’m going to have to make a decision in the very near future.”
Smokeless yes it is very very sad RIP the tradional english pub
Note
"Now it's empty. The front bar is almost never used. Regulars lurk near the "smoking door" and the Sunday lunchers sit in the garden - unless it rains, which it's been doing since July 1. Where are the non-smokers?
Anne: "To be honest, I don't think non-smokers are pub-goers."
Scotland is full of smokeasies, they wait till later on, shut and lock the doors with trusted regulars inside and out come the ashtrays. Suspect England will follow the same route. Can someone tell me how it can be illegal to use a legal product. the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.
For anyone interested in the history to the argument about the dangers of 'passive smoking' and the lead-up to the smoking ban - may I recommend Christopher Booker's article in today's D. Mail (12.11.07), which is an extract from his book, co-authored with Richard North - Scared To Death: From BSE To Global Warming - Why Scares Are Costing Us The Earth. (Continuum, £16.99).
Pse. see the thread on the NHS and Hypocratic Oath forum started by Canvas, for the whole extract.
Yesterday we witnessed Remembrance Sunday; with all the parades and respect to the millions who died. Yet not one of those ex-servicemen could have visited their local pub or
club yesterday for a quiet pint and a smoke, indoors, in comfort, in peace times. Whatever did they die for? I have asked if DC could kindly tell us.
Deal this book is an absolute necessity to read, remember those days 10 years ago when you were considered an adult and capable of making your own decisions before this awful control freak government came to being, the worst thing that ever happened to freedom.
"Where Bast veers from unbiased to biased is when he observes how the sum of this deceit attacks and destroys our freedoms and ultimately our democracy. The slippery slope starts with government making personal choices on your behalf and then using junk science and outright falsehoods to justify their actions. It ends with the total loss of our basic American
ideals of individual freedom, personal responsibility, and limited government."
Had a yank visitor over this summer.
Not a rich person but someone who lives out on the prairie. Bumped into him on th' interenet and offered him free board for a weeks hol. I'm a nice person like that.
Anyway he was confused about "pub culture" and asked me to explain.
I'll allow people a while to think about that.
What are our pubs and how they developed.
They are approved of by foriegn visitors and yet the village pub is hard to explain.
Where did they begin and what is their significance today?
A thought comes to mind of the tavern of yesteryear in the stories of Robin Hood or Dick Turpin. And yet it has more to do with the workers of the field. Hard grafting labourers who would round off the day with a flagon of mead and a fill of their churchwarden pipe.
Perhaps not that far bygone, a village meeting place where deals were done on the price of a sheep or shooting rights of a wood or field of rabbit warrens. Men with skins like leather darkened by toils under the sun would find a little rlaxation ready for the next days graft.
Today the workers in industry are no different. A hard graft to earn their wage followed by a relaxing pint in good company. Why should they have to stand outside in the elements to have their smoke which acompanies it?
Every week without fail I go and pump twenty quids worth of ammo into bits of paper.
Am I a violent man? Do I relish the power of the firearm in my hands? Nah, it's a pastime no more sinister that teens going to scouts or baton twirling.
I have to maintain sobriety, drink and a steady aim dont go together. But a pint and a fag after my shooting club gives me fantastic karma.
