the court accepts that Gore's film was overhyped rubbish
On what basis do you say that? Have you seen the detail of the judge's ruling? If so, please provide a link, because I haven't yet found it. But from what I have seen reported, your assessment is not an accurate representation of the facts. As far as I can tell, the judge does not dispute the central thesis of the film.
Last Tuesday, a British High Court Judge ruled that school children need protecting from political propaganda like Al Gore's creative film making.
Odd how some things can go virtually unreported. I'm a news junky and cling to the news on BBC TV, online and radio throughout the day. Yet have I heard of this? Nope.
Has this film been distributed free of charge to state schools, or all schools?
Does this film form part of the National Curriculum, and in what subjects eg politics, environment, science?
Are there any figures for how many UK adults bought the film, with free will, compared to how many UK children have been required to watch it in schools?
Why has this film been distributed by DEFRA rather than DoE?
Who made the decision that this film was fit to show the 11-14 age group who are less likely to see political motivation rather than 'pure' education?
I think that the Judge did rule that it was "Overhyped", although not quite in that language. He ruled that there are 9 scientific inconsistencies.. We also know that Gore was cherry picking his facts anyway.
What it means is what I have been saying all along... that the need for clarity, balance and action is there.. Not the hysterical pro and counter arguments we have all witnessed and been bemused by.
Gore drew some wild conclusions ala Hollywood movies which cannot be taken as the Gospel he presented it as.
Now maybe some of his conclusions may turn out to be correct in the long term but the evidence.. and you are a stickler for the evidence, is or was not present or displayed.
I think this is a partial vindication for the deniers who have been having their noses rubbed in it (and been threatened with taxation) when they do not understand or agree with what has been claimed.
What it means is what I have been saying all along... that the need for clarity, balance and action is there.. Not the hysterical pro and counter arguments we have all witnessed and been bemused by.
A point of view that I have always supported. The danger now of course is that people who were already unsure or sceptical will look at this judgement and dismiss the whole message of the film, without analysing the detail of the judge's comments. We really do need someone to come up with a way of presenting this issue to the public in an objective and unbiased way, so that we can get all this spin and confusion out of the way and concentrate on solutions.
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you are a stickler for the evidence
I certainly am, and I'm not going to jump to any conclusions or try to put words into the judge's mouth until I've seen a full transcript of the judgement. If the Government has any sense they will release the full details.
The High Court decision is also likely to prove embarrassing for the large number of politicians who jumped on the global warming bandwagon in a blatant pitch for Green votes.
The above is from a Press Release by the New Party
Glynne says on the 'long' post re Gore's Film "Suggest you re-post under Politics or in the news; Where I, and I'm sure many others, will join the debate - It may even come to the attention of DC.
Thanks for the advice butKozmicstu has now posted a new thread "The Errors in Gore's film " which might just have the required effect
FYI
Clipper Establishes Development Center For 7.5 MW Turbine
by North American Windpower NAW Staff on 09 October 2007
Carpinteria, Calif.-based turbine manufacturer Clipper Windpower PLC has created a Centre of Excellence for Offshore Wind in Blyth, U.K., to develop the world's largest offshore wind turbine at 7.5 MW. The development project, known as the Britannia Project, will build upon the architecture and technology of Clipper's Liberty 2.5 MW turbine, the company says.
Clipper plans to enlist the services and test facilities of the Blyth-based New and Renewable Energy Centre in this project. The One North East regional development agency in northeast England has agreed to provide a support package for engineering and a test laboratory, including its wind turbine blade testing facilities.
This poses some searching questions;
Wonder how much this support package is?
Who said this area was the most ill conceived place to put an offshore wind farm?
Who built the first offshore wind turbines there, and then went to Clipper wind?
Some answers to the previous post
David Still has worked in the renewables industry since the early 1980's, has worked as a wind developer, including leading on the UK's first offshore wind farm.
He was the Chairman of the British Wind Energy Association for 5 years up to 2002.
David was appointed the Renewables Advisor at the DTI at the beginning of 2003. He is also a member of the Renewables Advisory Board, and the Managing Director of Clipper Windpower Europe.
And the other answers..
One North East The NE Regional Development Agency RDA has awarded the Blyth Harbour Britania project a£5 million pounds investment package
Simon Power of ARUP has said Blyth was the most ill conceived area for offshore wind turbines so what has changed?
Glynne has drawn attention to Lomborg in the "Errors in Gore's film thread"
Danish political scientist Bjorn Lomborg heads the Copenhagen Consensus, which has prioritized the world's greatest problems -- global warming, world poverty, disease
FYI
There is more detail on the thread "Errors in Gore's film"
ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT ([email protected]) Dec 4th Every schoolchild in Scotland is to be offered the chance to see former US vice-president Al Gore's film about the dangers of global warming under a scheme by energy company Scottish Power.
Its official! Carbon dioxide emission savings from Wind power could be overestimated. This we have been saying for years in Co Durham.
Fullabrook Down Wind Farm recent approval will no doubt have left the objectors gutted but some good has come out of the approval.
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Namely:CO2 emissions savings claimed have been stated by BERR as ABOUT half the figure put forward by the developers. This is something we in Co Durham have been saying for years and it has been conveniently ignored by planners,and the emerging RSS
This can no longer be ignored as it is considered a material planning consideration, and has often swayed the fine balance of pros and cons to come out in favour of approval
Please read the information on the New thread 'The Windfarm Revolution'the truth is now emerging
Ask the people of Blyth...or visit http://www.wind-farm.co.uk and there use the 'CLICK HERE' to find the true output for 2004 and 2005. 2006 and 2007 are no better.
Need I say more ..
Information related to the over estimation of the 860g CO2/kWh figure for emission savings by wind energy developers is posted on the thread " Cameron visits NAREC at Blyth.Did they tell him the truth"
Finally it has been agreed that this is no longer representative of the UK electricity generating mix ,something we and others have claimed for so long.
Sustainable Development Commission (2005) Wind Power in the UK (November 2005 revised edition) p.35 last paragraph.
This says "... for the purpose of this report, it has been assumed that wind output will displace the average emissions resulting from gas-fired plant... it is the figure that the
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DTI use and is used here so so that the carbon benefits of wind power are not overestimated."
The figure cited for natural gas is "97 tC/GWh" which converts by the 44/12 multiplier to 356 t CO2/GWh, i.e. 0.36 t CO2/MWh. You must consult the November revised edition as there were errors of units in the original.
Just a reminderThe following is now on BWEA website
Wind industry to agree new CO2 reduction figures with Advertising Standards Authority Tuesday 15 October 2007
BWEA, the UK's leading renewable energy body is taking steps to agree national standards for the wind industry's carbon offset figures. This follows a ruling last week from the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) which overturned figures that had been previously agreed between the industry and the Authority.
Comment
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BWEA after screaming "misinformation" on figures put out by objectors for the last 5 to 10 years concerning CO2 saving, have now been forced to back-down.
The Legal Deposit Libraries Act 2003, Force10,
As a result of the 2003 Act, Force10 Companion Guide and Summary of the long fight to save Barningham High Moor, written as a piece of social history for local people and to correct misinformation elsewhere had to be deposited with:
The British Library
Bodleian Library, University of Oxford
Cambridge University
National Library of Scotland
National Library of Wales
Trinity College Dublin
Available for freedownload on http://www.wind-farm.co.uk and show how hard we have had to fight to protect our heritage. Whatever the outcome these will remain as a true record of events
FYI
Is it not time case that studies 2D, 6E, 3B, 3E in PPS22 Companion Guide were challenged and the document seen to be flawed?. This before it is too late No public consultation yet it is the document which supports PPS22 and on which decisions for Renewable Energy are being made.
Considering the original implication and current reality of both case study 2D(AAT) and 6E (GSK),these were premature and the document is flawed.
Case Studies 3B and 3E are surely flawed as they appear to be indoctrination of Councillors and Planners, destroying the necessary balance of potential benefits and potential disbenefits, that democratic element of planning.
Posted some information on the thread '800 Villages......' but due to the potential safety aspect on other Airports I am alerting you to that link
Extract
Durham Tees Valley Airport has indicated that there may be adverse effects on radar sited at the Airport which would in turn affect air traffic control services.......
In one word yes.
Each site is examined separately
Equipment being developed which had potential to mitigate the effect of wind turbines on Radar
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is not yet proven.*
Cumulative effect of turbines exacerbates the effect. If successful in the future the equipment would still need to be fully tried and tested before Walkway /Butterwick are built
This was not taken into account when the application was approved by the council although I told them and offered substantiation.
Under great pressure to meet Government targets for renewables the councillors are seemingly unable to respond to the wishes of those who elected them. A meeting with the Developer on the Butterwick proposal showed the strength of the community feeling against.Walkway as I have said was not given a fair trial.
Now an ASA adjudication has ruled elsewhere that CO2 emissions are half those developers are claiming due to current energy mix. We have continually argued this and even sent our welll researched comments,now vindicated. to the RSS but they have been ignored
Now is the time to try again
After all CO2 emission savings are what this is all about
Tizzy
Fyi
The link, courtesy of Powergen is to the DTI 'It's only Natural' case studies in your area This will give some indication of scale 100 metres to tip.Many applications are now for taller ones.
here Also some related information here pages 11-15
Left to Government who do not know how to say 'Sorry we got it wrong' Sadly 0
Left to MOD CAA NATS and Airports who have a duty of care to public and their staff whilst supporting in principle renewable energy. I believe we have a chance perhaps of 8
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What is essential is that more of the deception and delusion used to promote this technology is exposed.(see next post)
Planning for Wind Energy A Workshop for the North East Region 28th July 2004, Hartlepool. Supported by Government and Industry
BWEA h set up this series of regional events, supported by the DTI, to inform assessors and decision makers of the considerations to be made in plan making policy, case assessment and decision making for wind farm development.
Debate and Discussion
Visit to High Volts Wind Farm Hosted by E.ON UK Renewables, project developers and operators Commissioned only in December last year, High Volts displays some of the most advanced technology across its three majestic turbines. As one of the most modern working wind farms in the UK, the development is typical of many proposals for the North East.* It also provides enough electricity to supply the needs of nearly 4,500 homes and saves nearly 15,000 tonnes of greenhouse gases each year
Presentations from the Hartlepool Regional one day Conference Supported by DTI. My comments made at the time JULY 04 are below
The Pdfs will I am sure l be available on the BWEA website and I recommend accessing them Obviously as power point presentations one does not have the privilege of hearing the ‘asides’ but the slides are certainly awareness raising! Unfortunately for me it simply confirms my concerns that any consultation after this is solely a con, a sop. It is all too clear regions have been given targets that they are told it is obligatory to meet.
Note
*These turbines at High Volts have not performed as anticipated, nor have those at Holmside or Hare Hill Load factors were expected in the region of 30% Actual figures have proved to be much lower ,jn general around mid to upper teens
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What about the houses said to be provided for and the CO2 emissions said to be saved?
David Cameron's latest video "Change is on its way" is good but I do wonder what exactly he means by going greener>
He visited Angela Merkel not long ago and knows her stance on renewables and wind energy I therefore draw attention to the remarks of The French President after the recent Paris demonstration (The reason for this has already been posted on the '800 villages thread")
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Afterwards French President Sarkozy said windfarms would be first installed in brown zones; that there should be no precipitation. And he said to EU Commissioner Barroso " when I fly over certain european countries, well, it's not a pretty sight!"
Nicolas Hulot, the very popular french ecologist who promotes renewable energies etc. also said more or less the same thing!
Tizzy asks "Or do we have to wait for a crash in the skies above us?"
A post on the thread "National Safety and Security,Wind Turbines and Radar" is an expression of my concern for an issue which still appears unresolved
I have written to the Airport Manager and an extract from the letter is posted there.
Wind industry to agree new CO2 reduction figures with Advertising Standards Authority Tuesday 15 October 2007
The ASA found that BWEA member company npower had breached its rules by using a figure of 860 g/kWh for CO2 displacement for its proposed new Batsworthy Cross wind farm. This figure had previously been agreed between the ASA and BWEA,
For the record
This point has been raised many times and ignored by cllrs, planners and even the Inspector at the Trimdon wind farm appeal 'Our' representations to the Examination in Public EIP for the Regional Spatial Strategy RSS included well documented reference to just this and despite the sources of material cited in the Representations, they have been ignored.
Inconsistencies give cause for concern. 0.86 tonnes per MWh as quoted by BWEA, and replacing output from coal fired power stations DTI fact sheet 14 and North East Regional Renewable Energy Strategy NERRES 2005 quote 0.43 tonnes per MWh. The factor 0.43 is calculated on the basis of the current UK mix of plant and fuels used n power generation (from page18)
here We consider our Representations will in due course be found to be correct in that the proposals in the RSS, as approved by the Panel and the Government's proposals, will not lead to the cuts in emissions claimed and indeed may well lead to significant problems with transmission of electricity.
We believe that evidence from wind turbines already operating in County Durham firmly help to establish our Representation
Am attempting to post a new thread which I will entitle~ 'Monday Night at eight o clock' This will have weekly updates on what is happening much as a result of all those papers, 'consultations' planning issues etc that have slipped past so many and yet will affect them
The Protocol for Public
Engagement with Proposed
Wind Energy Developments in Wales Also one for England
A report for the Renewables Advisory Board and DTI
Interesting article but cannot get a direct link
http://www.metro.co.uk Search for Greenhouse gas emissions at'record high' (05 November 2007)
Rich nations’ greenhouse gas emissions have risen to 'disturbing' levels not seen since 1990, new UN figures show.
As part of the It's Only Natural Programme, BERR has developed programmes for primary and secondary schools to provide information and teaching resources about eight key renewable energy sources.
The programme has been distributed to schools in the UK.
Comment There is a wealth of information on various technologies and numerous links. I leave you to decide whether you consider it is all educationally sound
link here
Your Environment Extra Issue 17 Nov07-Jan08
Link is posted on the "Alternative Energy..." thread
50 ways to save the planet,from 25 experts
Porrit says "Concentrated Solar"
Fyi
In 1996 the Wind Industry launched a publicity campaign for wind,‘Switch on to Wind power’ (I believe it was called) to counteract what they claimed was the misinformation put out by anti wind farm groups
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Launching the campaign Jonathan Porrit commented
The information being put out is ill-informed, narrow minded, emotional rubbish. Unfortunately it drops into very receptive minds and is rapidly taken up by local groups as a justification for their own legitimate concerns
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This year a programme BBC Radio 4, Costing the Earth, claimed that wind power was unreliable, inefficient and costly, especially at low wind speed sites, It was also suggested that companies were making profits from projects that didn t work, but which got massive subsidies .
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British Wind Energy Association CE response was to say there is no government*subsidies for wind, and that Renewable Obligations Certificates were only awarded for electricity that wind farms have already produced and supplied to utilities , BWEA added that No-one in their right mind would build turbines**here they wouldn t produce a viable amount of electricity
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My comment
*The government does not pay the subsidy the consumers do** Misleading. The subsidy is excessive and even when the turbines are underperforming there is a great deal of money to be made
TNEI state that 1MW installed capacity should with reasonable wind conditions yield upwards of £250,000 per annum. At half the load factor claimed would still bring £125,000
An explanation as to why I take issue with the Introductory paragraph in PPS22 Companion Guide,copied below.
We believe the Government are on balance right to encourage further development of renewable energy. The sources of renewable energy......are inexhaustible, indigenous and abundant, and their exploitation properly managed, has the potential to enhance the long term security of the United Kingdom’s energy supplies and to help us cut carbon dioxide emissions.
Comment: The above is only an extract taken from the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee. Paper 126-1 July 2004 at 2.8 Chapter2 copied in full below.
We believe the Government are on balance right to encourage further development of renewable energy. The sources of renewable energy such as the sun, wind and tides, are inexhaustible, indigenous and abundant, and their exploitation properly managed, has the potential to enhance the long term security of the United Kingdom’s energy supplies and to help us cut carbon dioxide emissions. However these sources are also diffuse and uncertainties remain over the technical feasibility and cost of converting them into electricity reliability on a sufficiently large scale.
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Comment The cleverly selective extract used in PPS22 Introductory paragraph epitomises the delusions to which the public are subjected as this democratic deficit deepens. I wonder whether anyone but government or their representatives could get away with such deception.
Also the reports below from HOL and HOC have it seems been conveniently ignored
House of Lords(HOL) Science and Technology Committee, July 2004 The exploitation of renewable energy sources is to cut carbon dioxide emissions. Is wind power doing this to the extent to which it promised by working at a 30% load factor.
If they should operate at a capacity factor of only 21% not only would half as many turbines again be required to deliver the same target output, but potential investors would face dramatic reductions in the income from wind farms.
House of Commons (HOC)Committee of Public Accounts DTI HC 413 September 2005 Extract The Renewables Obligation(RO) has the effect of transferring substantial sums from consumers to the renewables industry.- By 2010 the cost of the RO which does not appear on electricity bills and is not explained to the consumer is expected to reach £1 billion per annum (at 2002 prices). It is the most expensive of the Government’s instruments to reduce carbon dioxide under the cross cutting Climate Change Programme.
This subsidy is not subject to Parliamentary scrutiny and Government should make arrangements for annual Parliamentary scrutiny and the amounts involved be reported annually to this committee.
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Comment: The present situation appears to be the result of lobbying by the wind industry rather than a true acknowledgement of the emerging scientific and mathematical facts regarding the technology .I wonder if the technology offered what it promised would the methodology being used to promote it be so undemocratic and so unacceptable?
Need to add some more information to the previous post
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•TNEI are support consultants for PPS 22 Companion Guide
Some background to TNEI -
•1999 Renew North/TNEI proposed regional and county targets for renewables in Regional
Planning Guidance (RPG)
•Gone commissioned Chris Blandford Associates to look at development of renewables targets in the North East to 2010. They drew heavily on Energy for a New Century’ by TNEI
and commented on the refusal of Barningham Moor proposal.
• 2002/2003. TNEI were appointed consultants to carry out the Regional Renewable Energy strategy for the NE, to be fed into the draft Regional Spatial Strategy (RSS) in June/July
•2003 GO-NE commissioned PB Power to undertake a study of the region’s electricity grid re the emerging Spatial Strategy for renewable energy.
•PB Power on behalf of EDF energy proposed 7 wind farms in Co Durham
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I wrote at the time to the co-ordinator for the RSS at the North East Assembly expressing concern but she had left and joined TNEI Since then the planner involved with the Walkway Wind Farm in Sedgedfield has joined them as did two people closely involved with the GSK Barnard Castle wind turbines
From a recent press article
TNEI - a company that helps the wind industry with planning application said “Every survey on wind farms comes back with around 80% of those polled being supportive of renewable wind energy. A lot of objections are sheer nimbyism”
Some more background information, particulary necessary with measures in the planning reform bill as Government plans to create an Infrasructure planning commission (IPC)were confirmed in the Queen's speech raised concerns by Lovell's head of planning HOP* and the Campaign to protect Rural England (CPRE)**
My comments
The Fall and Rise of Wind Power in the UK: From 1998 The exponential rise of planning applications for wind farms is an incredible story. Partial truths and selected statistics add to the deception as it appears that Planners and Councillors throughout the whole country are being deluded into accepting wind turbines to combat climate change.
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1998: UK planning system was blamed for the worst year the Industry had known
1998 Sustainability North East (Sustaine) was established. The Sustaine Board is supported by an Officers Group made up from representatives from GO-NE, ONE, NEA, Environment Agency, Derwentside District Council, Gateshead Council, English Nature and Northumbria University
1999 Feb : Dismal year in the UK as the planning infrastruction fails,
1999 Dec: Legal planning defeat for wind in NE England
2000 Mar: Planning hurdles defeat the Wind Industry.
2001 Mar : Dti Press Release(P/2001/176 ) Hain grants Freedom for Green Energy.22/03/2001 Peter Hain, Energy Minister, today unlocked green energy projects blocked by planning constraints, to drive forward a significant expansion in the production of green energy
2001 Letter from Nick Raynsford, Minister for Housing and Planning, to the (Association of North East Councils) ANEC, then Regional Planning body and author of the draft Regional Planning Guidance (RPG )strategy. Extract :"Further work needs to be undertaken by ANEC to set a more specific regional target and identifying sub-regional targets by the early review of RPG. This will ensure the government's target of 10% of electricity to be generated from renewable sources by 2010.
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2002 'The energy market, particularly for renewable energy , is a political beast under political control. To secure its future the Wind Industry must play politics.' (Sourced from: Wind Power Monthly www.wpm.co.nz)
2002 Nov Energy Minister, Brian Wilson announced the members of the new Renewables Advisory Board
2002 The Renewables Obligation was introduced to replace NFFO (Non-Fossil Fuel Obligation)
2002 Regional Planning Guidance (RPG) provides a strategic planning policy framework for the preparation of local plans. The Deputy Prime Minister issued RPG1, which provides guidance for the North East of England
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2004 The Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act ODPM
A new system.
2005 Yvette Cooper, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the ODPM launches parliamentary guide to wind farm development (Produced in association with npower renewables and the BWEA)
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2007 March press release from BWEA
In the 4 months since the release of the Stern Review, UK planning approval rates have plummeted to lowest level ever – only 33%
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* Lovell's HOP sees the reforms as clearly related to the government's agenda in energy and the ongoin debate pver nuclear power
**CPRE claim the bill looks like a developer's charter
from Planning Issue 1744 Nov 9th 2007)
