We are doing what we can diplomatically, remember this is in another country and another teacher has made a complaint which is being investigated. We remember similar complaints made here in the UK when jewelry is worn or head-scarfs are worn and people complain even threaten with legal action.

The British government must ensure this lady is protected from any punishment that is not prescribed in British law.

What I always dread in these cases is the emergence of those ruffians who condemn a whole religion on a single incident

Jess:


Why ever not? I don’t think an intention to offend matters. I think a Teddy named Jesus is not offensive at all. Is it?

Is a teddy in a miniature bishop’s outfit offensive? Or one carrying two miniature stone tablets? What about a crucified teddy?

I’m asking quite innocently here. For I really cannot see any possible offence caused by a fluffy toy.

Is a klu-klux klan teddy offensive? If so, why? Aren’t we in infamous gollywog territory here?

When is a toy insulting? Can it be at all?

What is in bad taste and what is offensive?

Answers to those questions might tell us as much about Britain, as they do about Sudan…

Is it not shameful that no-one raised any question on the matter of this unfortunate lady at PMQ's. Not every MP has a majority or large minority of Muslims in their constituencies. What on earth is going on?

This issue needs raising. I think Sudan are out of order. Not wise biting a hand that feeds you in this way. We are a charitable nation they shouldn't treat our citizen like this. This is an example of fundimentalists going to far.

I don't think Sudan are a recipient of UK aid. So I don't think we're feeding them, Chris. Else we'd have leverage.

On the radio a former diplomat suggested this is related to Darfur. Britain is critical of Sudan on that issue, so Sudan is effectively using this woman as a pawn in order to quieten criticism on that subject...

found this on another forum :interesting point maybe?




Greetings from Delhi infidels
Think of all the times in the UK over the past few years your little
UK citizens have been locked up on the politically correct whims of
your constabulary. What about the man who who insulted the police
horse in Oxford. Or the chap in a private conversation with his fellow
police officers who referred to a fellow police officer as a lesbian
- banged up. What about the man in Lancashire who refused to be served
by a gay librarian - imprisioned without trial until the middle of the
night and then realeased. Stray from the politically correct straight
and narrow and you are doomed. Not only that much of the action taken
by the Police is unlawful. Those who are rounded up for expressing
politically incorrect views are thrown into the cells for the sole
purpose of simply teaching them a lesson in the full knowledge that
they will never be charged.
If Britain was the home of justice and commensense you could outraged
by the events in Khartoum - unfortunately Britain is now the home of a
society in which it's so called leaders try to impose a perverted
ideology on it's citizens. That indoctrination exceeds in terms of
sheer stupidity in it's attempts to pervert what normal people see as
commensense anything that is occurring in the Sudan.
Think of all the childrens book containing teddy bears and assorted
nursery creatures that have been banned from various libraries of have
had to have been radically edited - as not being sufficiently
politically correct. One politically incorrect sentence broadcast on
air in the UK can lead to the unfortunate person involved never
working again in the media again - a life time sentence rather than a
few months in jail in Khartoum.

Strangely a couple of weeks ago two 'policemen' knocked the door to complain about an IP camera mounted on our house. Dad put it up 8 yrs ago after a burglary.

My mum sent them packing after explaining we had been burglarised by breaking/entering thru a rear window and lots of stuff stolen including a whole collection of children's videos and a giant whiskey bottle full of pound coins.

What is wrong with a surveillance camera? Sorry to digress.

"What is wrong with a surveillance camera? Sorry to digress."

I think it's illegal to have CCTV cameras pointing at the street (unless you happen to be the local council, of course). Even if they are only looking at your own property, I think you have to have some sort of CCTV warning sign. And I think unless numerous standards are adhered to, the police won't accept your home CCTV recordings as criminal evidence.

After all, we Brits have an over-developed sense of fair play. We can't possibly film the burglars without giving them fair warning, can we?

This country is becoming a mad house.

End of digression.

Are nativity models readily available in Sudan ...

Its just that someone from the Sudanese embassy was on Newsnight last night saying that the same investigation would be carried out if someone had offended Christianity.

"Toys" are usually used to represent Jesus, Mary and Joseph .....

Teddies are 'toys'

Perhaps not as daft a question as it seems.

I'm with the other Muslim(?) guy in the same interview .... "if a pet pig had been called Mohammed .... that would cause offence".

As I said earlier, I now have 2 pigs called Mohammed. However they will revert to their original names of Butch and Sundance depending on the outcome of this medieval madness.

In fact, I think someone should start producing some of those teddies that you can stick on car windows, with the teddy wearing a t-shirt saying "My name is Mohammed". This whole situation should be derided and mocked for the joke that it is.

Having read now all Scrubs posts I actually agree with this statement

Be assured Scrubs there is a whole lot wrong with Islam, and pointing a finger elsewhere and at other religions does not change that or lessen it

In fact too many people have spent too much time dong that type of reverse diversion already, hence why Islam is now empowered to behave as it pleases world wide, because in a twisted way you give credence to their Evil Brutality and Intolerance by not actually facing it head on as we in the Free Non Islam West should

but hey if diversion is your game then congratulations but you fool nobody only yourself

Your para 3 could equally apply to Christianity in some of its more nutty and sadistic forms.

What Islamist extremists need is a massive sense-of-humour injection and coaching in the game of cricket.

Same goes for the Evangelical Christian rednecks.

Yorker, yes perhaps it could, however you would have to work hard to find such global comparison and numbers involved between Christian horrors and Islamic horrors, currently Islam wins hands down for the award of Backward Dismal Violent Oppressive Intolerant Outdated Fascist Death Cult of the year

And sadly has been winning this accolade since about 1990 (possibly before given attacks in AFRICA) with no improvement because blinkered people see fit to look the other way or attempt comparison with other religions horrors

Far as I am concerned this approach failed, time for people to actually get real, Islam has to be brought forward in time, resistance to this is NOT an option anymore, as at least we in the west are quite happy for Gay people to stay alive, incredibly content for our women to be equal and wear whatever they will, etc etc etc, Islam itself promotes via its very text a different version of all those and they are not acceptable

Lets get to the core of this, we pay Sudan millions of pounds in aid, they so far have brutally slaughtered / raped between 200-400,000 Christians without anybody actually doing a thing

we are set to pay another 1.5(estimate) million to them next year, and yet despite all this the Islamics take the money and arrest a women over a teddy bears name

is this a sick joke? why are we paying anything, cut the money get this woman back, remove all British Nationals from this Hell hole and once that is done threaten completely this terrible nation till it gives up its lust for genocide and its pathetic intolerance towards anything NON Islamic, set the example of how things are to be done

now that is governance, and that is how to be on the world stage, currently the best Labour have done is wave a wooden sword (and been laughed at especially by the predominant Islamic block vote on the UN) and summon a diplomat for a jolly nice chat

Pathetic and all in all exactly why the Islamic world keeps walking over us in their jackboots

1939 we started to stop such ways in this world, 2007 we are spineless and do nothing but smile and attempt failing appeasement whilst staying in denial because waking up to reality will mean tackling this Beast of a medieval desert death cult religion AND tackling it properly

btw Yorker Evangelical Christian rednecks did not detonate themselves on the 7th of the 7th, nor are they currently holding a women prisoner over a teddy bear, nor did they suffer Cartoon rage, nor pope rage, etc etc etc and on and on

The problem is when in Rome do as the Romans do.

If I make a contribtion to the labour party (which runs the country) then go out and kill someone would it be right for me to say "you ungrateful b*****s" when they lock me up forever?

Are you suggesting these people's faith can be bought?


They believe that what they are doing is the will of thier God.

Cliff

"...currently Islam wins hands down for the award of Backward Dismal Violent Oppressive Intolerant Outdated Fascist Death Cult of the year... a medieval desert death cult religion"

You're OTT, Storm. The problem is not so much Islam as Islamic loonies. We're plagued with Christian loonies too, who also deal in mega-deaths but in a more sophisticated way. They too claim a hotline to God. Your description simply doesn't fit the Muslims I know here and in the ME.

On the question of UK aid to Sudan, I agree. Not a penny more.

Hey, whoa. hang on a sec, I am given to understand that the aid is largely going more or less directly to the south of the country to assist the refugees (mostly non Muslim Africans) in the Darfur region, much going through Chad and Ethiopia.

If we cut that off the Sudan government won't give much of a damn.. they really want those people to die off so free and untrammeled title to the lands could be given to their Arab Islamist population.

I must admit that I haven't been keeping abreast of the Darfur crisis, but I hope no more aid goes to the Sudanese government. If they can channel it direct into the projects, OK.

Well Yorkie I think the Darfur crisis is the inverse of the Palestinian crisis..

The Islamist dominated government of Sudan has been quietly supporting the warlords and Janjaweed militias which are basically Arabs. They have massacred as many as 400,000 (At least half of that) and driven about 2.5 million into refugee camps. (This is a very simplified explanation Greater detail is available from Wikipedia here)

Anyhow is appears that as these Animist and Christian africans are being driven away their lands are being occupied by Arabs.

The much heralded peace keeping force is as much use as the mammary glands of a bull... they may not interfere with the Sudanese army who are major players in the massacres.

So Israel's expansionism has provided a useful blueprint for other would-be landgrabbers....

Incorrect Islam allows for this, and in many instances promotes it as a necessary deed, this is clear by the multiple Islamics unconnected globally who carry out the same actions, ie killing Gays because Allah says so, third classing Women, because Islam says so, subjugation of other religions, paying the Jiyza, jihad, the major (Violent) and minor (propaganda, denial, promotion of sharia) versions because Islam itself says so etc etc

Time to wake up, I would wager the larger percent of Germans in 1939 were good honest people, yet the country was still a Nazi one, do not blame individuals, actually scrutinize the doctrine, because it shapes the individuals and in the case of Islam justifies what we would class as the worse of all actions

Lest it also be forgotten that in any war situation any major country or belief sends forth a number of soldiers, a small minority if you will (the entire nation or Belief does not issue forth to fight)

and it keeps its reserves but the bulk are back home NOT fighting with weapons, but fighting the home front war, inclusive of propaganda which counters by denial (see scrubs line of denial and diversion), to buy into these lies just aids the larger effort to promote the terrible fascist doctrine of Islam and its adherents are only too happy when folks spout the usual lines of Tiny minority, Islamic loonies etc (the last one is a specialty in Islamic countries when an adherent is cast as being mad when they shoot dead three non Islamic people, attack a church etc etc, better in Islam to say somebody is mad, as opposed to simply following the Koran to the letter this is the lesser Jihad to a tee)

oh and btw if again you doubt my words or feel I am OTT spare a thought wont you for the latest Thai's, one who was crucified and the other two who were beheaded courtesy of that desert death cult teachings I mentioned earlier (Koran 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion And Koran 47:4 :Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length)

"scrutinize the doctrine"
Yes, but whose doctrine? There's an important job waiting for someone to write the definitive behavioural guide to Islam. I think we've given up trying to write a definitive guide to Christianity. What godly belief system do you suppose sent a coalition of soldiers to blast the hell out of 1 million innocent Iraqis?

Oh yes, and what about those ancient text you quote? Any worse than some of the Biblical texts?

Stop banging on about Iraq. This debate is not about the rights and wrongs of that conflict. This debate is about the current state of the Islamic Faith and the carnage it leaves in it's wake at the moment.

I mean if the old boy Mohammed was alive today would he:

1) Be impressed with what is being done in his name generally?

2) Support the imprisonment of a middle aged Christian women who came in peace to educate the children of a poor nation because her pupils named a teddy after him?

3) Have endorsed 9/11?

4) Have agreed with the Taliban and their method of government that they implemented in Afghanistan in his name?

5) Have agreed with the lashing, imprisonment and gang rape of a women for being in a car with an unrelated male?

6) Be a fully signed up member of Al-Qaeda and their ideology?


I personally do not believe he would respond to any of those questions in the positive. And if that is the case, then the present incarnation of the Islamic faith that he founded, has now morphed into some hideous mutation that he would not recognise, let alone endorse.

Is it right to apply our level of so called "sophistication" and "enlightenment" to a people and belief system who and which basically still exist in the middle ages? Not really I would contend, after all its their country and the way they choose to live their lives is up to them.

Okay that aside - the naming of a Bear Jim, Eric, Mohammed, Camel crap or whatever who gives a stuff in all honesty its irrelevant. Unfortunately, this lass wandered into this country presumably without having the first idea of what she was getting herself into or without having the first idea about their culture and religion! Read the books by Micheal Asher who lived in this region and lived with these tribes. These people may as well come from Mars for all we can really grasp about the lives they lead and the way they hold their beliefs.

The naming of a bear is all fluff - bless her heart she probably walked into this country with wide blue eyes trying to do the right thing but not equipped with the right tools. She forgot the basics - understand the lay of the land!

Should they let her out? of course they should.
Are they playing politics? of course they are.

If, however, she had a basic understanding of what she was getting herself into we would not be having this absurd discussion about a friggin bear!!

Britain has many stupid laws which we expect foreigners to obey, I know of an Angolan who has a criminal record for something which is not a crime in Angola, we never waved anything there. I think we are a bit arrogant.
Why would anyone want to go to the Sudan? That mystifies me, if she was a Muslim you'd think she was a Bin Laden person.
She should serve her 15 days come back and that's it, I know foreigners who have suffered far worse here, in our 'family' law courts, which to a Sudanese must seem just as prmitive.
Lastly I do not agree that we have the same God, that is simplistic, personally I feel more of a bond with Buddhists and Hindus who are more peaceful people than Jews and Muslims, but that's just me.

Like I said earlier, the Prophet were he alive today probably wouldn't mind any more than Roosevelt did to having a chilkd's bear named after him.
"This debate is about the current state of the Islamic Faith and the carnage it leaves in it's wake at the moment." Well, that's your definition. But who are we to talk about Islam's carnage without comparing it with Christianity's carnage-making skills?

Come on Yorker or Scrubs, I am interested in what your answers to my quetions are.

Lets make it easy, multiple choice:

Please answer with a yes or a no.

1) Yes / No

2) Yes / No

3) Yes / No

4) Yes / No

5) Yes / No

6) Yes / No

Their doing a great job of that themselves...... forgeting other religions, Muslims are killing fellow muslims in ther hundreds and thousands, And they accuse this woman of insulting muhammid by going along with children naming a
teddy bear after him They are hypicriticle nut cases.......
I'm a christian and see no insult in calling a Teddy bear Jesus!!!

[/quote]

And Israel and Palestine, their problems are not about TEDDY BEARS

TonyTT, 'no' to all of them except possibly No.6 - He might have backed 'defensive jihad'. So your quarrel isn't with Islam but with a few nutters who have perverted Islam for their own agenda. Just like Christians.

Agree with Yorker Tony.... After 1st gulf war I went to Kuwait, visiting friends that were working there,,, They were helping them repair the country after Sadam invaded....
the wife ( british ) had to go to hospital and I said that I would go with her in the car... My friend said I couldn't travel alone with her as we were not married,, and if stopped she would be arrested and punished...

How can any civalised country believe in this rubbish.... I can't believe it is the name of religion??

You are nuts. How is attacking the US as Al-Qaeda did "defensive jihad". The only reason the Afghanistan situation exists as it does today is because the Taliban did not give up Bin Laden. He is to blame for that mess.

Anyway back to the original subject:

The Muslim world are so gullible. See the link below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm


Whole populations are brainwashed by a few fanatics into believing there is some sort of western plot against them. They come onto the streets almost instantly at the behest of imams and Islamic governments. There is absolutely no spontaneity to any of these protests. Whether it be these in Sudan or the ones in Europe about the cartoons, the Muslim population have to be incited by their leaders to do it. And they just go along with it without question or thought. What a bunch of sheep.

This reminds me of Nazi Germany. A small band of fanatics lead a paranoid society, and feed on it. The community listen and just go along with it. Muslims are the new Nazis.

I'm sorry - why is religion somehow excluded from ridicule?

Every other being and every other issue on this planet is allowed to be ridiculed.

Religion should no way be considered above any form of rational debate, parody or mockery.

Jake

Gawd, that's funny. Just substitute "Islamic" for "western".

As for defensive jihad you were talking about Al-Qaeda's "philosophy", no? Well, defensive jihad is an important part of it, no? And I daresay the Prophet would have approved of that bit, no?

I think the entire population of America and the UK should read the first line of Yorker's post above.

I guess it wouldn't make much difference. Pragmatism and critical thinking are a bit dull, aren't they really.

On a different note, how long will it be until people realise that 'this offends me' is not an argument. It amazes me that some people still think this is a valid, pragmatic, intelligent argument. It's not and should never be considered one.

Hear hear.

All religions should have to stand up to the same scrutiny and ridicule as any other concept. But for some reason they seem to think they are above it all, and should be exempt from it. I don't know where this feeling of infallibility comes from. Why should religion of any colour be exempt from the scrutiny that all other human endeavours have to put up with? Scientific discoveries, law, politics even, are subject to review and criticism. Why should religion be any different as a concept to say how Stars form, which as a concept or area of human understanding is constantly reviewed and criticised.

It is this belief that it is somehow wrong to criticise religion, and it's refusal to countenance it having to justify it's place in human civilisation that so irks many. The latest example has come about with the release of "The Golden Compass". These are fantastic books, and there is no doubt that there is certainly an anti religious (Catholic) sentiment running through the story, but so what. However church groups have come out calling for it to be banned, and for children not to be taken to it, not because of the film itself, which has had it's anti religiousness taken out, but because watching the film will encourage children to read the books, and therefore be subjected to the anti religious sentiment in them.

This is madness. Why on earth do religions seem to think that they should be able to peddle their dogma without any form of resistance to it. Any time any alternative view of what religion represents, or what its place in humanity is, makes it into the main stream, whether through books (Satanic Verses), or film (The Passion of Christ, Life of Brian, The Golden Compass, Theo van Gogh's film Submission, that he was killed for making) all religious establishments try their best to silence it. Why? I believe it is because they all know that their existence is extremely precarious, and that their arguments stack up to nothing more than stories and black magic, and that the ice on which their arguments are based is extremely thin at best. They fear one great scientific discovery will one day occur that will smash their ideas to smithereens. That will be a great day. Or that a drip drip of alternative views will slowly melt the on which they stand.

If you can't stand up in your own right and have the confidence to face opponents freely, without the need to stifle what they have to say, then you don't really have a place in the modern world.

The quote was not to take the p**s out FAITH not religion! And was, I am sure, a plea for a little less random condemnation and aggression on this topic!
Religion is a man-made thing... and hell don't we know it! Faith is something different, and if you don't have it...well that's a shame. But looking into the REAL ethos of that quote, isn't it about not taking the p**s out of someone or thing if it's going to offend? Humour is only funny if the object or subject of the joke sees it as such. Otherwise it can be downright hurtful! A good deal of bullying in schools and workplaces is "passed off" as humour! Bullies and cowards get their kicks out of offending. Not funny!
But I do agree that PC has gone too far. It shouldn't be about educating the masses into not upsetting certain sectors of the community (or the world) in isolation, but about attempting to encourage them to be aware of others and acting towards them as you would to yourself or those you love! Where the extremists of Islam (and in some areas Christianity et al) really fail is to think that they can force their creed on others by violence and lack of empathy for others beliefs and cultures. Far too one-sided!

How do you deal with people with no sense of humour? Does poking fun mellow them or just make 'em madder?

Probably makes 'em madder! They are not going to mellow and see the joke if they haven't got a sense of humour in the first place!

None and many would be the answer to that, not strictly Christian as the U.S. army has many faith and none represented

so your point is...............(apart from diversionary or irrelevant)?



Which currently have how many Christians exactly genuinely fulfilling them, go actually look at unconnected but for Islam incidents around the globe practicing the exact inhumane types of thing I have already cited (there are so many more btw) then try to find as many Christian equivalents

Go figure you wont too many already have tried, also humorously most acts of evil by Christians are countered by the Christian belief itself, whereas most acts of evil are not just endorsed, but actively encouraged by the Islamic faith itself

Now what is your next standard counter argument, it's just a tiny minority, Christians have a terrible history thus this is just Islams equivalent.......whatever I have heard them all and so far none detract that in 2007 Islam is creating hell on earth where-ever it can and only the truly blinkered or stupid are engaged in trying to deny it or lessen its impact by blindly pointing at others

and those self same people are as bad as the worst of Islam by defending the indefensible

Oh it did not take me long to find the standard dumb response by the ignorant



It is not a perversion it is Islam period (clearly you need to first read the Koran then simply read the news to see reality), and laughably again you try to make a comparison to Christianity in 2007, sorry to make your world less politically correct, but Christianity moved on into (not completely) 2007 Islam is still stuck way way way back, it is why its adherents find it so easy to switch from 'Moderates' (you know those that only hate women, find offense in teddy bear names and wish to kill Gays) to Extremists (which wish to kill everybody non Islamic), hence no comparison at all

And we in the west wonder why we are losing to this death cult rabble, well its simply too many blinkered people denying a very simply reality about a specific religion

Well said STORM.

And to add to that... Christianity is supposed to have taken the basic ethos of the texts of Judaism (Old Testament) and moved it on. Before anyone starts ranting about Abraham being prepared to kill his son and "an eye for an eye..." then remember much of the OT is in "story" form and is set to be deciphered. The New Testament, the basis of Christianity, however, dispells the right of the act of vengeance and the myths of an "angry and vengeful God".

Where do you stop in trying to justify people's and nations' acts of barbarity by upholding the example of a minority few Christan movements or by ignorantly misidentifying the facts?

On the contrary, we are winning.

1) The battle fields are in Iraq and Afghanistan and not in Western countries.

2) The various Islamic factions are turning against each other both in Iraq and Palestine and killing each other far more than us (suckers walked right into that one).

3) Islam is slowly being exposed as the vicious murdering faith that it is, and even though they don't pose any real threat to the west, it is easy to spin it so that it seems like it does (suckers walked right into that one to).

4) The teacher in Sudan was an MI6 plant with a mission to discredit Islam and stoke the flames of the western public's increasing distrust of the religion (Again, they walked right into that one).

5) And all this just to butter up the west for the inevitable attack on Iran (even I saw that one coming).

Q: "What godly belief system do you suppose sent a coalition of soldiers to blast the hell out of 1 million innocent Iraqis?"
Storm's answer: "None and many would be the answer to that, not strictly Christian as the U.S. army has many faith and none represented
so your point is...............(apart from diversionary or irrelevant)?"
You're hopping about all over, Storm. The question was about the religious beliefs of who sent them, not the religious composition of the army. The point is patently obvious.

And how do you account for all the God-fearing 'chicken-hawks' - those upright pillars of society who endlessly preach preemptive war and death but make damn' sure they are nowhere near the action - that infest the US administration and our own?

I think you're missing the point Yorker, although undoubtedly Storm will also come back on this.
There is NO "Godly belief system" that sends to or participates in such wars, or has anything else to do with them perpetuating! Some people might profess to be acting out the tenets of their religion, but if they had true faith they would know that they are NOT! Too many people act in the name of religion, but that only adds to the UNGodliness!

The imams of the middle east create propoganda in order to promote this hatred of the west. They are the ones who create this paranoia that everyone is out to get them from the smallest of events. Who would have thought that this timid headmistress who decided to teach children in a country of a different faith worked for our security services? God forbid!!

What the sudanese people seem to forget is that she only allowed the naming, she didn't name the teddy bear, one of her children named it after himself and not of the prophet.

What difference is there between naming a bear and a child the name muhammed, which is actually the 2nd most used name for new born boys in the UK. Under these extreme laws they are all naming their children after the prophet and inciting hatred through naming the child. The only difference is this woman is white and is not muslim so is jumped upon by a load of west haters. There can be no-one in the world that thinks this sentence is just and I truly hope Britain burns the bridges that we have with this ludicrous country.

Whats more, what the hell is david miliband doing sitting in Whitehall saying "in the strongest terms" what he thinks. Why the hell isn't he out in Sudan speaking directly to the people in charge of the country? What is this man actually for?

That's an assertion, Jess, that you haven't yet substantiated, and I happen to think you're wrong. What do you make of TB, man of God, apparently chats to Him, goes to see the Pope, is itching to be a Catholic, is convinced of his own rectitude blah-blah-blah, God-will-be-my-judge and all that? Was he cynically using his Christianity to disguise or justify his own evil purpose or did he actually believe his holy destiny was to wage that dishonourable and wipe out civilians on an industrial scale as if they were 'untermenschen'?

Then there were those Christian Zionists in the upper echelons of British Government who thought it their religious duty 90 years ago to criminally give away Arab territory to satisfy an ancient prediction that another religiously motivated group would return to tribal lands they had abandoned 1700 years earlier, thus starting an endless bloody war that has cost thousands of lives and created millions of refugees and is still a threat to world peace.

Mind you, after seeing the news from Sudan this evening it's obvious that Islamists need to purge and police their religion before its more stupid adherents lose them friends.

Almost exactly what I would have written, except I would have added the single only religion that accounts for 'sending' or participating in such war (and far worse) is Islam, it is a religion born of war with everything needed for war inside of it



AHA the true colours finally shown pro 'Palestinians' (a people who actually did not exist till the 1970's btw until the phrase Palestinians was coined)

till then they were primarily the people from the surrounding Islamic nations forced into the smallest of space to

1) aid in removing Israel off the map
2) perpetuate the greatest lie of all by creating the 'Palestinian' people

also nice to see you use the words 'ARAB' land, that would of course be the same land either occupied by Christians (many who were converted forcibly) and Jews as well, or the same land then happily sold to the Jews (point of interest for you as well, if you wish to get technical, the middle east was once primarily Christian, if you wish to have land claim, then I guess the Islamics and especially the Palestinians will be leaving soon then, happy to hand over the keys to all the land to the Pope in Rome)

but hey we are just talking factual history and reality and NOT the pro Palestine rhetoric you clearly have been brainwashed with, but the good news is now most people can see exactly where you are coming from in the whole Islamic debate......which imo is misinformed and/or in denial



backed up simply by this statement above, no need to purge or police their religion, it is a totalitarian religion which is not changeable it is the word of Allah to be obeyed and in its belief system is all the west proudly stands against

go figure we have Bear rage today, tomorrow will bring another Islam based atrocity, people like you will attempt to lessen its impact by pointing at Christianity or Judaism and citing some wishful dream that they are comparable in 2007 or spewing forth the same old rhetoric we have heard for years (its the Palestinian problem, its the Zionists fault, its the Americans, its every other conceivable group bar Islam) and Islam once again gets to perpetuate itself in all its horrendous medieval glory unchallenged and destroying all the west most hard earned hard fought values

1) NOPE the battle fields are across the globe, there is the major conflict the Major Jihad which is terrorist based warfare

and then there is the far more subtle lesser Jihad with such things as Veiled girls fighting school systems to get the right to promote Islam in the western democracies, then there is the immense propaganda machine attached to Islam that has 'community spokespeople' out insisting that things like 9/11 are in fact nothing to do with Islam, but instead resultant of foreign policy or the Non Islamics misunderstanding Islam

Whatever denial denial denial, war is Deception and they are winning by the lesser Jihad alone

2) the Various factions have always been at each others throats, trouble is we keep standing in the middle of them or worse still historically setting up, financially backing evil ruthless dictators to separate the groups SEE Saddam Hussein etc etc

3)It is only easy to spin it because the adherents of this faith keep acting out this faith and proving they are a threat

4)& 5) Lol

Someone call the guys in the white coats.

To late for mental health treatment for all of Islam I'm afraid.



But Yes somebody do just that!

You can then get help for your delusional state of mind, or maybe they will have a copy of the Koran for you to actually read

Have a nice day

Must have escaped from the Foreign Office...