The power of good PR is not to do it AV, in China or Russia they don't need PR because no one critisises and if they did no one would do anything, apart from arrest tourture or kill you.

As I said no system is perfect but Capitalism is despite it's many faults more effective and far fairer than any other system, because those faults can be corrected the reason being because capitalism leads to democarcy. Having thousands of cars to choose from rather than the Communist Trabant is democarcy and is capitalism. Ensuring those cars are fuel effieicent and are more enviromentally freindly is capitalism, ensuring those cars are more fuel effieicient because that is what people are demanding is capitalism. Communism in China has lead to the building of a fossil fuel powered powered station a day in China because people have no choice whether they want to live next to them or not and can't object to the effects that they are having on their heath and envirtoment. Yes Capitalism is not perfect but that is mainly when it doesn't operate as it should, the dominance of Tesco's comes to mind, but we can boycott the store or we can demand that their dominance is reduced.

OM
"As I said no system is perfect but Capitalism is despite it's many faults more effective and far fairer than any other system,"
may i point out that socialist communism was the first system to get into space.the first to put a man in space,the first to land on venus,and that the space shuttle is launched on russian made rockets to this day.
i see two reasons for this
1)socialist communism is more effective at,innovation engineering,developement and production.
2)democratic capitalism (USA) even with the huge budget that nasa has , cannot today produce a rocket engine that has a quarter of the power of a russian rocket made 30 years ago,this is why they buy and use old russian rocket engines to launch the shuttle to this day.proving that it is capitalism that is ineffective,inefficiant and an obstical to innovation,but hey someones getting rich out of this failure so thats ok is it?
as for china and people have the central govt imposing stuff on them may i point out that china is a collection of cantons ,these are completly autonimous and self governing districts,they may be advised from central govnt who have the big picture in mind,but decide individually if they are going to accept or refuse any or all of these recomendations,they can and do whatever is best for there local district.central govt does not as you imply make anyone live near a power station.it makes suggestions .

You can't have it both ways OM. You say we don't know what goes on in China and then you tell us all these awful things happen there. You may prefer the capitalist system but money is the power in the system and this is neither fairer nor more democratic

Psysics.

Where do you get the information about Russian built rockets powering the Shuttle? Reference please?

As far as I know the principal manufacturer is Thikiol ATK based in Utah. I am also not at all sure that use of Russian technology would have ever been politically acceptable.

If feel a mixed economy,rather than a private capitalist driven economy would be healthier.
A mixed economy would include socialism,market economy,planned economy ect and not focus on private wealth/power.
The excesses of communism could be better decribed as
( State Capitalism ) .

This is done in nordic countries with sucess,lower crime rates,educational advantages for all and well run health services. At the moment we seem to be going down the US line of private capitalism with all the problems they have,we started along the scandinavian route after the war but have moved away in the last 25 or so years. If we continue down this path we have to realise that there is a direct corelation between disparity of wealth and opportunity and crime. This is the same the world over and has to be accepted

Jonji
I did not mean to misslead you into thinking that the shuttle was powered by superior russian technology. it is the launch vehicle that uses russian rockets .
It was on a documentary a few years ago and clearly showed the americans being 30 years behind the russians .
The americans were buying all the russian rocket motors the could get there hands on,there were lots.
They may have copied the the russian motors since then,but at the time they could not even build a computor simulation of the russian design that worked and when the american rocket scientists were given the specifications of the rockets (there size)and there power output or thrust ,the american scientist said it was technically impossible.
This lead me to conclude that capitalism stifled inovation and technological advance.
The reason being that research and developement are not profit making.
Also why build exspensive new ones when there are centuries of profit to be made from the old crap. or
Why invest in the new when we are getting rich now.?

also posted on criminal justice thread

my synopsis is as follows;

capitalism creates inequality...
someone getting rich makes lots of others poor
this is a fact
Poor people invoke or turn to religion to deal with there financial insecurity and the unfairness of there situation.
(When was the last time you saw a millionair in church)
3rd world contries (non christion) have fewer religions with a devil.
There is no BAD role model.
Meaning that there should be less crime however impoverished.Which is true
Western civilization and other (abrahamic)religeons ,jewish,christian,islam ect do have a BAD role model to follow,so you would think there is more crime in these societies.
Which there is.
Its not so much an east / west divide , its more of a devil or no devil divide.
Nearly all the western world is dominated by God and Devil religions and concequently have more crime than the others.
I am not saying that religions are at fault here.
The root of this problem is Capitalism caused insecurity.
Capitalists get a sexual satifaction from there behavior.
This causes poor people to turn to religion, religion is a conciquence not a cause.
I just checked the site www.new scientist an its subscription.
Back to your point it is not western societies per say that have the worst crime.
It is GOD and DEVIL worshiping societies (of which the western world belongs) that have the worst crimes.
Example ;Bhurma (buddist) low crime.Phillapines (christian) high crime.Both eastern .
USA (christian) high crime.Sweden mostly (non christian) low crime both western.
The fact that it is developed contries is because the capitalism that "developed "these contries created the inequalities that cause crime.
Some religions are for capitalism because the inequality drives people to them makeing them think the are more succesfull.(a capitalist point of view)
May I point out that Jesus was most definately not a capitalist.Remember the money changers.
sorry about the stats.maybe astro or providor can help.

power sex capitalism dominance ,all release the same pleasure hormones.
being in a large crowd ,reading great prose,looking at flowers, religious experiances, listening to some types of music do the same.
Different amounts for differant people.

Physics! jonjii is right, when he stated that your long postings are almost impossible to read, let alone grasp the points you are trying to make...

There are some interesting facts you quote,, also some uninteresting garbage, churned out in a patronising way...

No doubt you don't intend it to be, and suggest you write in such a way,, that many of us mere mortals can understand.

Your last posting is a perfect example,, there is possibly many interesting points you make, but I gave up after the first sentence.... What a waste!, as it must have taken you a long time to collate the info.

Please listen to jonjii !!!!!!!! I'm not stupid, just my brain takes longer to absorb things nowdays lol..

Just a quick note to add to what 21P said above..

Spelling is not too serious.. if you get the first and last letters right we will generally understand.

But Use short sentences.

Full stops and commas.

2 Spaces after a . and 1 after a , like so.

Caps at the start of a sentence and

Blank lines between paras. (Short paragraphs please each containing only 1 idea)

By parseing like this your presentation is no longer daunting and becomes easily readable.

If you write like the news stories in The Sun (dare I say it) or other tabloids, you won't go wrong. They are put together in a style that's economical on space and can be easily read and understood by kids and grannies and everyone in between while strap-hanging on the OxoCube.

I tried to put this under "introduce yourself "
titled "Im Happy, its you Im worried about"
didnt get past the moderator though.

I am a British subject
I love this country

However this capitalism leaves something to be desired

9 olevels at school a few colleges night schools and now the OU
I had worked since I was 14 ,mostly self employed but some lab work aswell. For 25yrs or so ( I started 2 buissinesses)

I am now disabled
( due to an extreemly brutal and violent attack )

However I am making the best of my lot :)

I get £15 per week from social for being such.
Plus incapacity benefit.
The purpitrators got away scott free
(nothing to do with the subject I know)


My circumstances are :

I cannot afford heating.(save for one bulb on a halogen heater when its very cold ie frosty)

I cannot afford hot water.(save for once a fortnight for a bath)
Personal hygeine and washing up are done with the kettle.

I cannot afford a washing machine. (no laundry)

I cannot afford a cooker.(I do have a steamer and microwave)

I cannot afford the TV licence or a TV (no loss there :))

I cannot afford transport.(I get a bus into town for shopping twice a week ,£6 )no busses after 5 pm

My furniture came from a recycling center,bed ect(£10 )

I tend to live in one room with a power saving bulb.

I cannot afford to socialize.(prohibitavely expensive)

Clothing used to be charity shop only but now some of these chinese imports are cheaper than C. S.


My luxuries are ;

An old computer with a crap internet connection.

A radio

2 guitars

Some paint brushes and sometimes some paint (Im artistic)

2 cats ... 3 kittens

That said I am happy and helpfull,
I eat a good organic veggy diet.
There is nothing I want (being non materialistic)

certainly not something for nothing anyway

The thing I am most proud of is my council house;
after 8 years of homelessness and living in private accomodation that was to quote the councils chief of houseing "unfit for human habitation"
(it had no water and an outside loo).At £50 pw
With the disability,I had lost the will to live ,
and was quite literally waiting to die.

Then I got a council house,and recently found
Bhuddism (a religion based on facts)

This sad but true story has a happy ending.

I am learning that true happiness comes from helping others.
My circumstances are not that bad when you concider the plight of 3rd world people and those in war zones.
Most of the people i meet are not happy,I am.

Politically I used to be left,but it turns out they moved to the right so far as to be indistinguishable from the NAZIs.In fact i think Cammeron is more left than labour,a more accurate view of my political stance would be Radical fairness.

peace and love and kindness to all .

Hey Physics... Do you notice how much more readable the above is. Well done.

physics911comfan , Are you sure you're claiming everything that you are entitled to? It doesn't sound like it.

Can you go to Citizens Advice just to make sure? Did you receive compensation for the attack on you? Are you absolutely sure that you must to go without heat and hot water?

All the best.

jonjii
It was your advice that did it :)
thanks

canvas
Yes I have a case worker at the C.A.
Even so it took 2 an a half years and a tribuneral
to get £15 .The xrays clinched it.
I have a new community care worker and C.P.N.
They are concerned aswell.Twill make little
difference even with their hearts of gold.

Heating and water take me £700 over budget.As I
found out 3years ago when I moved in here.
Scarey numbers,and prices have risen alot since.
I dont do debt.
I am not silly enough to freeze and am solvent enough
to put more heat on in a cold snap. :)
Living in a hoody helps . :)

The Police said "no wittness no action"
Even though I gave them the names and addresses of 6 of them.
Go figure ?.No compensation then.

Life is luxury now,
for a few years back there i was homeless and had to go hungry 2 sometimes 3 days a week,
I think that lasted 3 and a half years.
A different year I could only afford to eat 1 tin of cold baked beans a day for a year and a half,due to an unscroupuless landlady stealing my benefit books
and cashing them for herself.Her name was Beverly Hickmott.She claimed benefits aswell.I was too
incapacitated from the beating to stop her.
It never rains it pours,

My life may seem ,? well I dont know.
To me it seems all roses now. :) and thats what matters. :)

Thankyou for your concern.

Hi physics911comfan,

Someone else may already have mentioned this (I haven't read through everyones' responses) - I would recommend you read a book by Francis Fukuyama ("The End of History and the Last Man" here).

It's an academic account of the argument that capitalism is the final phase of social and economic development, and tries to take account of the contradiction between democracy (equality in the eyes of the state) and liberty (freedom to be independent from one and each other).

It's actually not to hard to read, and he makes his argument quite persuasively (even if it is quite wrong - he fails to take account of varieties within capitalism, for example)

I agree with you its wrong in its conclusion and
very americanny in in out look.
Bushes america is more Nazified by the day,they
and we have the wrong system.They can push
just so far (it could be there aim)and blood will
be spilt to cleanse the world of there filth in a
Bhuddist sort of way :)Peace rules

Phys I don't know which branch of Buddhism you read but as far as I know the Buddha reveres all animate life... from the ant eating your grass and the mosquito biting you..

That life is some soul on a cycle in the quest to enlightenment so despite the awful horrors inflicted on them... there is no retailiation and no violence ever offered.

In fact the Dalai Lama decries any violence whatsoever.

And actually spilling blood never sorts anything out really.

Che Guevarra rapidly and ruthlessly put all of Bapatista's cronies against the wall as soon a Fidel gained power.

It gave Fidel untramelled control.. It meant Che had to leave Cuba and it ensured that Cuba got onto the US's sh1t list where it has remained ever since... There are too many US citizens with claims to lands and wealth stolen by Fidel for there ever to be peace.

Do you think the Southern Vietnamese suffering after the North took over cleansed anything.

Or the thousands that the Taliban executed when they were in power and will douptless execute if they regain control deserve(d) it.

Sudan now.. The Janajaweed are still armed and out there killing and chasing refugees. There is blood still being spilled in buckets and is it solving anything (They are ethnically cleansing huge areas so that Islamic or Arabs can move in.)

If we stop them and then get retribution in blood for the suffering they have caused will we have solved anything?

I fear not

Forget it

A death is forever.. millions of deaths are still deaths and those people have had their chance at achieving enlightenment cut short.

I am not avocating violance jonjii
mearly aprecciating the fact that they
will spill our blood before they give
up there tyranny.Tis the way of the beast
miners strikes,polltax demo's ,hippy festavals,
blood spilt by tyrants ,
its all they know,because they are literally stupid
and the power they have has made them so

Oh and according to buddists
you keep coming back untill
you are enlightend,when you
get a choice to come back or
not ,you could stay in the
spiritual realm then if you
chose to do.

At present i think this is because
we are spiritual beings haveing a
mortal moment .and not mortal beings
that have spiritual moments.Your KARMA
is a reflection of your lifes good
and bad ,yin and yan ,and determins
what you will come back as.


Bhuddist monks are renown for predicting
their own deaths in advance very accuratly
even to details about the weather on the day.
some know what they are coming back as or who
strange and almost unbelievable yes
but one thing i have learnt is they dont talk sh*t
and i tend to take their veiw as an honest one
they dont lie ,and they mean what they say.
to learn it you have to do it,

one saying goes thus;

I hear I forget
I see I remember
I do I understand

Phys:

Your posts are much more readable and enjoyable.
Even if I disagree with some of your propositions.

Thank you for making the effort to make your thinking so much clearer.

hi Phys, Hasn't the CAB helped you apply for disability living allowance?

Phys, the facts of your personal life are appalling, but that you can have any faith whatsoever is uplifting.

Your comments above must have taken some guts to write down; respect.

Agreed about karma in the 'reap as you sow' sense, but not re-incarnations. To me, that is giving hope to people in your position of some better after-life, thus keeping you quiet today.

Glad to see you are not taking it lying down though I echo other members comments - have you exhausted the 'system', because it seems you have been badly let down.

21parque

I get low level DLA its £15 a week

The next level up I think is worth another £25 a week

would sort the nessecities out.

I will discuss it with my CCW tuesday.

CAB case worker thinks Im on the right amount.

More medical evidance needed methinks
as being in dire straights is not a qualification...:)
besides I have enough to live on
and it also fits in with being more green
I feel a bit guilty useing the electric i use now
and simply hate giving power companies money

I think my posting was more of a response
to assertions that it was so good here and
other places were ; ie if you were living in
commy land you would be in a dimly lit cold
room,ect.A i thought thats me,and then I thought
prehaps you dont know its like that here too.
so I thought I would let you what its like here
in good old blighty
me niehbors got a bhurma star from the last war
japanese concentration camp inmate now he had it rough
he's 92.

Physics911Comfam sorry for coming back to this post days later sorry to hear about your circumstances I have 2 relatives that are both disabled so know something of what it is like. Don't know all your personal circumstances and am not askling about them, am probbaly being niave here and no need to answer but I do hope you got some compensation for your injuries from Criminals injuries board or was that dependent on them being convicted. Also have you tried to get help from your MP if you don't think you are getting all you are entitled to, sometimes it works, but I make no promises.

Hope you won't think me too heartless to make a couple of points on what you said previously, yep you were right Russia were the first into space, but the massive spending to get there was achived by cutting back on basics available to the ordinary citizen, there were shortages for almost all normal consumer goods apart from home made Vodka. Then the biggest remaining communist country The Peoples Socialist Republic of China will offer no health care support to any citizen, you have to pay for healk care when they are available and if you can't pay you won't get anything aboslutley zero. Then there is real oppresion, think of your fellow Budhists in Tibet or those that were trampled under tanks tracks in Tiananmen square or the infant girls that are killed because of the one child rule.

You are right capitalism is imperfect and we should give more support to people like yourself, but I still remain to be convinced that there is a better system than the one we have now.