In the last 30 days some 31 executions were carried out in Iran and 8 women were awaiting execution by stoning. And in Gohardasht prison alone, some 612 individuals were in death row.
Iran remains the only country in the world that continues to execute children and International human rights organizations have indicated a short time ago that 71 minors were incarcerated under the sentence of death.
President Ahmedinejad regime seems proud of the human carcases hanging from cranes across Tehran.
Executions have now become a public spectacle. Many very brave Iranians still call for freedom and democracy in their country, over 5000 demonstrations have been organised during the past year, by trade unions, by student bodies and by women’s groups. Tragically the carcasses of some of the leaders of those demonstrations are now on public display on the streets of Iran and are labelled hooligans who have threatened the Islamic state.
It is estimated that Iran could within a couple of years be in possession of Nuclear weapons or should we really believe what the Iranian Government say that their nuclear programme is really a harmless programme to introduce nuclear power to their oil rich nation?
Well done Bush and Blair and now Brown you have let the Iranians off the hook with your pointless escapade into Iraq.
So you don't care about human rights abuses in Iran and the fact that such a manic would get his hand on a nuclear bomb, I agree Saudi is bad but they are not threatining their neighbours or spreading terrorism or arming themselves with a nuclear weeapon.
Saudi doesn't need it's own nuclear bomb. It has access to the US arsenal by proxy. That makes them more of a threat than Iran in my book.
They also execute, behead publicly in fact, minors see here.
Your assertion that Iran could have a nuclear weapon in two years is of course completely wide of the mark when most 'experts' are talking in terms of decades. See here.
Are your comments just part of the marketing campaign telling people how awful Iran is to try and justify impending military action?
Hey Japan and China still execute people.. maybe not publically but the people are just as dead.
If you are going to try for a universal anti capital punishment movement that is one thing But to single out Iran (Or Saudi Arabia for that matter) smacks of political cherry picking.
Why when you ask about one country does everyone else go on about another country I was talking about Iran not, Saudi Arbia, Or Japan or Russia or America. If I opened a thread about Zimbabwae why would everyone stay on that subject but mention Iran and we turn into the United Nations.
I was away for a few days Yorker and was trying to answer a point that someone made.
But I was talking about Iran, but maybe the tread is irrelevant because as Yorker has said, another thread is discussing the evolution of Iran post dictatorship.
ok IRAN
leave it alone,they have every right to nuclear power.
its not a war anyone can win .example IRAQ where our troops are now hiding at the airport because we couldnt get them to the basra army base safely,did we win?
also in IRAN there is a happy jewish community who have no problems at the moment.so the sugestion that they are a threat to jews in the region are just propogandist lies.
however there is a nation in the region that has over 400 nuclear bombs and has never signed up to the nuclear proliferation treaty and has waged agressive wars (they started them )against all off its neihbours and still persicutes discriminates and violates human rights every day
maybe we should watch them.
IRAN has no intention of invadeing israel ,what for to nick there oranges.its a waste of effort.Iran is doing fine without us messing things up .
or are you for getting hundreds of our troops killed over something we cant win anyway.profiting oil companies and security companies only.sounds like capitalism out of control again.
Olmert is on his knees to Bush for the OK to strike Iran. Look how he panicked over Putin's backing of Iran's nuclear quest for energy. Money drives Bush unfortunately and the prospect of Iran being able to export all it's oil is motivation enough for him to hit the red attck button.
ok onemarcus
a response to your posting
we can only make things worse
with referance to the executions and death row
may i point out that america has a much larger population on death row awaiting leathal injection ,a very slow and painfull punishment,and there recent exicution of a woman with child (pregnant)is even more hidious than child execution if they are in fact not the same thing.leaving the western world with no moral authority at all.disproving your second point that IRAN is alone in this barbarity as america also kills children,not counting the americans shot and killed by there own police every day with no judicial process,what about their rights.
your assesment of the President Ahmedinejad regime is purely conjecture.
to your next point that public executions are a spectacle
may i point out that american executions get global tv coverage on occasions ,so IRAN is still better than the US
your next point about Irainian nuclear bombs in two years has no factual evidence to back it up and im inclined to think you pulled that one out of your bottom and thought we wouldnt notice the smell.
bush brown and blair are already up to there necks in there own do do without treading in some more.
and the reason that people bring up the subject of other contries is too point out that the IRANOPHOBIC assertions you are makeing up are just plain wrong ,,,OK
I did say keep your comments to Iran but no we had america and Israel and again I never mentioned invade so you talked as though I wanted to invade Iran. So Iran is this wonderful country and everything that goes on there or what their president says is made up. I give up no point in debating with you people, not worth it.
ok look i like President Ahmedinejad hes alot smarter than bush not saying much i know.but he is smart
hes trying to get it right for his people.if you want critisisms of IRAN ,here goes ,theres the heat ,its so hot .and the sand its so dry ,and the oil its so black an sticky uch ,an have you seen were it is on the map...oi vey its not that far from all those jews who could possibly want to live there ,you would have to be an irainian or something
Marcus, You asked what can be done about Iran?....How can you talk about any Iranian solution, without involving other states? unless you suggest leaving Iran to go about its business, which does include its interferance, in other countries through terrorist networks,, for its own political gain
He is good a grinning. But he is a deluded tool of the rich and wealthy classes of Iranian society that pull his strings like a puppet. They just want to live high on the hog on the back of oil wealth they steal and the exploited masses they oppress while "the grinner" averts their eyes from the truths about their own society by crying "the Americans! the Americans!" at every opportunity. There are those on this thread whose eyes are also easily diverted from the real criminals who are quietly making their stash within Iran while all the "fireworks" keep everybody else occupied.
He's good for the Iranian people well that's a good one, so for children and those that opposse him and are on death row is he good for them. The man is a dangerous despot who is oppressing his peole and anyone who opposses him.
Not everything is as balck and white as you think it is, you can't just go round and say everything America or Israel does is bad, (I acknowledge some of it is) and then say by default I am going to be an apologistic for Iran because they are anti americian.
Marcus, the problem isn't Iran,, we are aware of Amedinejad,,
and his often crazy retheric.. but he doesn't pull the strings in Iran...he's just the puppet!.. The Iranians are mostly an inteligent race, and would wish to live in a free and democratic society...
Even if they achieved producing a nuclear bomb...could you really see them threatening to use it against their neighbours?....and how?.. Israel could destroy them many times over....the rest are protected by America one way or another.
A prosperise Iran would get rid of their own war mongering leaders....
The Wests larger problems will come from PUTINS Russia,,,
some say his weapons are old and outdated,, but they still have the knowledge to quickly change that, and PUTIN will use any wealth created fron their natural resources to do it, as he has already started, even in making the average Russian,, even poorer,....
When it is said terrorist would love to get get hold of a nuclear or dirty bomb,, I believe it would more likely to come from him than any country such as Iran...to do his dirty work for him...
The Iranians are mostly an inteligent race, and would wish to live in a free and democratic society...
The Wests larger problems will come from PUTINS Russia
Again a deflection from the issue - against the Russians this time (far from perfect as they are).
If the first quotation above is true, then it is for the Iranians to set about creating such a state of affairs rather than looking to the outside world as the cause of all their woes. Who funds and arms the Revolutionary Guard? Start putting pressure on them rather than Putin.
A prosperise Iran would get rid of their own war mongering leaders....
I wasn't aware that Iran's leaders were particularly warmongering - at least not as much as some I could name... If you mean supporting guerrilla activities, I imagine they'd argue that this is in response to external threats against the Islamic community.
But Triarius how can you not deflect from any conversation about Iran when they are involved in other countries conflicts,,with either financal or armed support...
And that makes them war mongers.....I know you believe the USA, us, are bigger ones Yorker,, and your quite right...but you can't use religon for the reason as you suggest
21 parque - that is the whole problem. We keep looking at Iran from the angle of an outsider - be it from a friendly or unfirendly stance. But Iran is the way it is primarily because of its internal socio-economic structure. Talk about whether it should be invaded or not or what it is doing in the outside world or not is a secondary issue that deflects from an examination of how and by whom wealth and power is wielded within that state itself. A discussion that everyone here seems intent on avoiding.
Iran is the way it is primarily because of its internal socio-economic structure
... and as a result of the overthrow of the democratically-elected Mossadeq government in 1953 - a US/UK 'regime change' operation to reinstate the foul Shah, who was eventually sent packing by the 1979 Revolution.
So the Iranians have already had to unpick one western regime-change conspiracy. Now we're considering another. Don't the fruitcakes in Downing Street and the White House ever learn?
The statements about intelligence on this thread are an insult to humanity and show the posters own deficiancies rather than any factual information.ALL human beings are intelligent,great apes are intelligent,whales and dolphins are intelligent,birds particuarily crows are technically our equalls when it comes to smarts,cats are smart and dogs well you can train a dog to obey 140 different commands (given that these are spoken in another spieces language).
I doubt that the posters could actually think of 140 suitable commands to give a dog . if they cannot does this not implie they are dumber than dogs,?
Quote: "So the Iranians have already had to unpick one western regime-change conspiracy." Triarius: "More special pleading and ducking the issue, yorker. Blaming the West for everything isn't going to improve things there."
Butt out Triarius, if you have nothing intelligent to say.
These continual threads about Iran are totally pointless.
It is very simple, unless the Iranians allow the west total access to their nuclear programme, then eventually the US/ Israel etc will attack it.
Banging on about the pro's and con's, the rights and the wrongs, the who's to blame etc, does nothing to prevent what we all know will be the outcome. The ball is firmly in the court of the Iranian leadership. If they continue to antagonise the US then there is nothing the Iranians, Russian's or any state can do to stop them attacking and destroying the entire Iranian military, and perhaps civilian infrastructure.
If old Ahmadinejad is looking for a fight with the west, then his wish will be granted soon enough, but unfortunately the people who will suffer the most will be the people of his own country and his own region.
Yorker, you may be telling us why Iran is in the state it is, you are not giving us your view of how they might improve it - themselves - without us doing anything at all.
you are not giving us your view of how they might improve it - themselves - without us doing anything at all.
I'm not in the business of advising states on how to run their affairs, especially when we're not doing too good a job for ourselves. Why should we interfere yet again, having b*ll*xed it up for them in the 1950s? Leave them alone to evolve in their own way and influence them through forming a good trading relationship, as I think I said on another thread.
"It doesn't worry you, then, that no westerner would ever be safe again".
Sounds like a threat to me that.
Lets just say that if things got really out of hand, the race that makes up the vast majority of this island will not stand by and let a minority (whether individuals are innocent or guilty), attack it's people and it's cities. Our patience and liberal values does have limits.
the vast majority of this island will not stand by and let a minority (whether individuals are innocent or guilty), attack it's people and it's cities.
How do you propose to stop them? And if you venture abroad?
Physics91. What is your problem with using the word intelligent? humans, apes, dolphins etc. have the ability to learn, yes! but at different levels, brain and memory power is not the same for all..
Are you saying that anything, that can absorb more knowledge,,,, should not be reconised as more intelligent?...You use the word clever doesn't that mean that a person is more clever than another, because of their ability to absorb knowledge is greater? What's the difference? ...
Triarius [I for one am prepared to accept humbly that you are at least as intelligent as a crow or a cat, physics! ] flattery ?
21parque
Physics91. What is your problem with using the word intelligent
a very intelligent person without wisdom is useless.
a quote :"wisdom arises through effort
wisdom dissapears through lack of effort
knowing this two fold path one should
arrange oneself such that wisdom increases"
THE BUDDHA
i have no probs with the use of the word
i think that the word wisdom was more appropriate in a contextual sense .
Last edited by: physics911comfan on 28/10/2007 01:06
The way forward with Iran must be through negotiation. I'm completely opposed to any form of military strike which will will only stengthen the position of Iranian hardliners and will store up yet more hostility towards the west. After the debacle of Iraq the last thing the world needs is sabre-rattling aimed at Iran.
i agree tony negotiation and add trade to the mix ,if we are buying oil from them like russia and china then they become our allie and so making it very difficult for america to become agressive toward one of our trading partners and resource suppliers.a bit like taking the fuse out of a bomb
I really can't belive on the evidence that is being presented abour Iran or to be more precise the Iranian regime and what they are doing to their peole and also the trouble they continue to cause in Iraq and elsewhere that anyone can have a good word to say about them. Is it because they are anti-American that some people such my old friend Yorker are willing to stand back and praise them.
I can see limited military action probably air strikes being taken against their nuclear facility, (why a country with almost limtless oil should require nuclear power is beyond me). There will be no large scale military action taken against Iran and the people in Iran who are the real losers in this will be spared. Let's hope they will somehow overthrow this dangerous tyranical fanatical regime.
Russia and Putin are doing no more than sabre rattling, the Arms race against the West bankrupt Communism and led to their downfall, any attempt to build their forces up to previous levels is impossible.
Beverley I share your opinion on Zimbabwae if only they had oil.
we have limitless coal ie over 400 years worth an we have nukes?
the rest of the world hates america yorker is not alone
bushes "were bringing them democracy if we have to kill every last one of them" policy has only made america weaker.there is a proverb "if you continualy fight with someone you will only succeed in teaching him the art of war".
bush hasnt even got the support of congress any more he is a lame duck.in more ways than one.
if i was putting money on it i would back china or russia to whoop the USA any day
If Iran is attacked, even if by so called tacticle strikes... I hope we stay out of it!!, And is carried out by the Amercans alone.. the alternative is strikes by Israel....America does at least have weapons,,, precise enough to avoid most of the Iranian, public and infrastructure....
A way must be found to satisfy all parties peacefully,,,
The first senario would possibly solve the short term, nuclear situation.. but could cause untold other problems..
In a short time we could all be suffering the aftermath and picking up the pieces... America would have a new president,, that will want to distance themselves from bush's, failed policies,,,, by withdrawing from all conflicts, they have either started, or been involved in around the world...abandoning all so called allies,,, and become fortress america........ And we would be number one target as little saturn.... unless of course we became Americas 51st state and fell under their protective umbrella...
