So Hilary Benn is now in charge of Defra. A vegetarian to be responsible for farming which by its nature provides animals for meat. Oh, that's clever a vegetarian taking on the responsibility for animals going to the slaughter. A conflict of interests methinks.
He's for the hunting ban. I think farmers will love him, not. A post related to country life should go to someone who has a track record of caring about the country, again Kate Hoeys field.
As long as the way he deals with this position isn't overly biased because of his own opinions then I don't see a problem. He needs to go somewhere half way.
As long as the way he deals with this position isn't overly biased because of his own opinions
Surely, his opinions will always colour his judgement? I can't think of any reason to appoint a minister unless he has opinions and knowledge of the portfolio.
It is my opinion that Vegetarianism is dangerous and unnecessary and I would question the judgement and logic of one who chooses it.
It is my opinion that Vegetarianism is dangerous and unnecessary and I would question the judgement and logic of one who chooses it.
Why? I'm cheerfully carnivore, but vegetarianism is a valid choice, not a threat to one's life (unless really pushed to extremes, but you could make the same argument for carnivorism too!) so why the hostility unless it's just that you're afraid of something you don't understand?
Synopsis FAST FOOD NATION The story of fast food is to a large extent the story of post-war America. In a perverse way, it is also the story of Britain since the deregulation of our food and labour markets in the early 1980s. Schossler's account takes in the whole of this prototypically global industry, from its origins in the hysterical competition of the southern Californian diners to the modern saturation of urban and suburban locations, from the revolutions in cattle raising and slaughtering, to the employment practices of the industry leaders
It's very interesting - and it should reassure you that a veggie in charge of DEFRA is a good thing!
As long as it is a personal choice and not requiring imposition of such a diet on others I see no harm. If it is some crusade against eating animals because they once lived well OTT.. If no beef industry, no beef, If no one ate chickens... no eggs.. Well not quite but you see what I mean.
However all of Labour is very keen to impose their views as law all over the shop (not smacking your kids, smoking in your work van and so on... the list is long) that I do not trust them.
But I do accept that there are parts of the progress of animals into the food chain that most of us don't really want to know about..
If you can get all the nutrients your body requires from vegetarianism, why shouldn't you?
My body was designed by your god. It was designed to be omnivorous.
The thread is not about the fors and against eating meat but the logic of having someone who finds eating meat to be wrong in charge of the supply of meat to the nation. Angling is also part of his domain, already there is a branch of tree huggers after banning the sport.
The shooting of vermin (rabbits, rats, foxes) comes under his office as well. The Labour party wants to ban all ownership of firearms. I think it fair to think that he could use his position to add some weight in demanding this.
The countryside and the ways of those who use it should be under a minister with a history of being prepared to protect it in it's entirity, not just the vegetables.
The countryside and the ways of those who use it should be under a minister with a history of being prepared to protect it in it's entirity, not just the vegetables.
God help us if they start passing laws to protect vegetables!
If you can get all the nutrients your body requires from vegetarianism, why shouldn't you?
My body was designed by your god.
Err, whose god...?
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It was designed to be omnivorous.
Odd, because my body is a result of several million years of evolution. It is capable of extracting nutrition from a wide variety of sources, animal *or* vegetable.
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The thread is not about the fors and against eating meat but the logic of having someone who finds eating meat to be wrong in charge of the supply of meat to the nation.
And has this person attempted to enforce their views on everyone else? Are they suggesting mandatory vegetarianism? Are they trying to make decisions for the rest of us based on their personal beliefs? No? Then what is the problem...?
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Angling is also part of his domain, already there is a branch of tree huggers after banning the sport.
Shouldn't that be "fish huggers"?!
And people have been calling for a ban on "sport" angling for a long while now. Personally I can see their point: If you're going to *eat* the fish, that's fine, but just dragging it around on the end of a line for ten minutes and eventually chucking it back seems more than a little cruel.
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The countryside and the ways of those who use it should be under a minister with a history of being prepared to protect it in it's entirity, not just the vegetables.
The countryside and the "ways of those who use it" have changed many times over the generations. Just blindly demanding that "it should be protected" because something has been done in a certain way for ages does *not* mean that that something is *right*!
And unless you have some proof that the new Minister is "only interested in protecting the vegetables", you're only making yourself sound silly.
Primary proteins are only found in meat and are required by the body. The vocal chords in particular suffer when insufficient primary protein is present in the diet.
The design of the body is that of an omnivorous being and while we can extract nutrients from a variety of foods, we can only extract those nutrients which are present. I have yet to find any evidence that a vegetarian diet is healthier than a balanced omnivorous diet.
Primary proteins are only found in meat and are required by the body
What does the 'AND' mean in your comment - what does the 'required' mean in your statement?
It's simply untrue to imply that humans 'require' meat in their diet.
It's perfectly possible for a vegetarian to have a healthy and balanced diet. I can't even understand why it's 'an issue'. It's not exactly a radical idea. :)
Canvas the sentence says that primary proteins are required by the body. They are required in the same way that other nutrients are required by the body, in the same way as healthy bones require calcium.
A vegetarian diet is not balanced because it lacks nutrients which cannot be gained from sources other than meat. It may not be a radical idea but it is at the very least a point of view as valid as any other.
Oh dear, what a lot of strange views you people have about food. What's all this?
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The vocal chords in particular suffer when insufficient primary protein is present in the diet.
Paul McCartney is a veggie and it hasn't done him any harm....okay I take that back ;-) but, seriously, I'd like to know where you get that bizarre thought from.
Just out of interest, I am over six foot tall, have never been in hospital and been a veggie for 25 years. You'd think I'd at least be feeling a bit peeky by now if it was so unhealthy wouldn't you? :-)
I think the reality is that the human body is a lot more adaptable than people think, and can get what it needs from a variety of sources, animal or vegetable.
On the subject that started this thread, I'd say that any NL politician is unfit to run anything by definition!
Of course it would be better if the Defra minister was a meat eater otherwise he'd miss out on all the inevitable big dinners that the industry would invite him to :-) but, in theory, it shouldn't preclude him from the job. You can be a veggie and still support the plight of all farmers.
On the hunting ban, I was against it, so please don't make assumptions about someone's politics based on their diet.
Arthur, I never said that it was impossible to be healthy and a vegetarian, I said it was by definition not a balanced diet (as it excludes a total food group), was unnecessary (as it is possible to be healthy and a meat eater) and, yes, dangerous as it is harder to get ALL the nutrients you need (not impossible - with the exception of primary proteins) while excluding meat from your diet.
The comment about vocal chords comes from a singing teacher (and I mean real singing) married to an ENT surgeon and, as such I have no reason to doubt it.
On the original subject of the thread - I would doubt the sense in having a transport secretary who had no driving licence or who had never used public transport.
Timbill - your thinking on vegetarianism is squiffy.
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A varied vegetarian diet will supply all the essential nutrients you need to help you keep fit and healthy. In fact, a vegetarian diet can offer a wide range of health benefits. Research has shown that vegetarians suffer less from obesity, coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, type II diabetes, certain diet related cancers, diverticular disease, appendicitis, constipation and gallstones.
Don't mind being vegetarian if I can have a bacon sandwich !!!!!
Actually I watched a programme a long time ago, training SAS and it said they needed meat, (for stamina)
I have been told by people who know that primary protein is needed and that it cannot be found from other food groups.
Unless you can tell me what other foods can provide it, I don't think you can accuse me of needing to research it just because you've found the above quote. I've no doubt that people who eat a reasonable amount of meat also suffer less from those ailments than those who eat too much meat.
timbill - to clarify - we are talking about a vegetarian diet - not a vegan diet.
For example - Gorillas are considered vegetarians, yet they often consume insect eggs and larvae, as both adhere to the leaves and fruits on which the animals typically dine. So in reality, the gorillas are eating small amounts of animal protein daily.
Perhaps one of the lentilians on here could answer something that has bugged me for a while.
Why are so many viggie products shaped like pieces of meat. We have veggie sausages which I can sort of understand as a sensible package. But whats with these fake rashers of bacon, or the replica steaks and cutlets? Why should it be that they want to look like they are eating meat?
Graham said "Err, whose god...? "
Have you ever seen the late Dave Allen, he ended his program say "may your god go with you"
As I am agnostic I do not have a god, ergo it must be your (second person) god who created us.
I have no problem with veggies I like to eat a large variety myself, but if I was to eat them only (no meat)I would eat a lot greater volume than I do now.
Surely it is a personal choice?
You may give up fishing or meat if you want, hey, You can do what you like.. just don't tell me what to do.
And that is the reason I am so pee'd off with all you holier than thou veggies... Ok, get on with it, just keep it to yourselves...
This is an extension of the hunting or the smoking ban. Some well meaning but misguided b%gg£rs who hold a temporary majority and want to push others around.
If you read my post again you'll see that I am AGAINST the ban on hunting. And this thread was started by a rant by a non-vegetarian against vegetarians - not by a 'holier than thou vegetarian'. I'm puzzled really. Those of us posting here who are veggies are being very calm and the meat eaters are banging on at full volume. I don't believe there is any chance in the near future of you becoming a minority so I think you should maybe take a few deep breaths and go and chew a hamburger or something. :-)
Errmmmm - is that comment directed at SmokelessCoal?
I believe it is the 'meat-eaters' who are complaining? A storm in a teacup? A Daily Mail type of knee jerk reaction?
Has Hilary Benn made his personal dietary choice an issue? No.
ArthurWalk says "And this thread was started by a rant by a non-vegetarian against vegetarians"
So wrong, I have nothing against veggies. The post if you consider it in a broader way is should a politician fit the job they are given. Can a vegetatian be in charge of the countrys meat production in an unbiased way. He will not have to be as hands on as those lower in the office but he will have control of the regulations covering farm and livestock. Will his personal view about the killing of animals for food cloud his judgement.
The same could be said of other ministers, does their profile fit the job they are given. But this one just stuck out like a sore thumb to me.
The subject matter got a few comments. Perhaps it would be preferable if I stuck solely to my pet subject rather than deviate to other topics.
Canvas, the suitability of a politician for the job given seemed more a relevent issue than the colour of Davids tie.
Whether Benn is a vegetarian or not is not the issue, its his choice and so long as it does not affect me I am ok with it. What is important are the policies he will implement! If he just continues as per Miliband then I am concerned,
I am concerned too that he will inherit the same advisors who have replied to my letter on Windfarms with out of date infromation on microgeneration! Querying this I have had no reply.
I just hope the advisors in his new department are more knowledgeable! The advisors the energy minister then Wicks got it totally wrong.
Sorry Only I can divert a burger and vegetable discussion to comments on wind but there is a remote connection.....
You're welcome to the thread Liz. Methinks I'll stick to the injustice of the pistol ban in future.
2.5 million shooters in the country. Thats not all the votes available here. Most shooting club members don't have their own guns, they use "club" guns. So the potential number of voters could be three fold that ammount. How does the support of 7 million voters sound David. Then there are our families who support our sport. Lets just double the figure to 15 million potential voters. Getting interested yet.
Sorry Only I can divert a burger and vegetable discussion to comments on wind but there is a remote connection.....
I continue to be amazed at your talent for raising the wind farm issue in so many different threads Lizabeth! However I too am rather keen to discover where Hilary Benn stands on energy and climate change issues. I seriously doubt that he would try to do anything that would damage the meat industry, and our animal welfare standards are already pretty high so I don't think livestock farmers have much to fear. I'll be interested to see whether he is in favour of tradeable carbon quotas and offsetting schemes as was his predecessor. Also whether he'll continue, as Miliband did, to selectively ignore the "climate change is the most important issue we face today" mantra when it comes to conflicts between renewable energy schemes and landscape / public amenity issues.
I hope he will continue with the blog that Miliband started - it was good to have that route for raising and discussing environment issues with the minister, and he did occasionally actually reply to points people raised.
Canvas, the suitability of a politician for the job given seemed more a relevent issue than the colour of Davids tie.
Where do ties come into it?
I think it is completely bonkers to even suggest that Hilary Benn might be unsuitable for his job because of his personal food choices?!
That's almost like suggesting that a disabled person shouldn't be in charge of the health department. Crazy way of thinking. Your post makes no sense to me!
Canvas
He will have been given his remit and believe you me I doubt whether he eats 'meat or 2veg' or 'five a day' his choice, will affect policies already in place.
DEFRA hates farmers. The farmers hate DEFRA. I don't think that's going to change just because they've relieved one puppet of its post and replaced it with another puppet.
I add a true tale from Open Spaces Society OSS) annual report as it is these wonderful snippets which help to preserve my sanity against the attitude of seemingly arrogant decision makers.
They don’t appear to care a hoot about the countryside or the people who live in areas that are designated for wind farms.
In a visit to DEFRA members from OSS had to provide evidence of their identity. One man used his blood donor card and was issued with the following as identification.
Mr B Positive
