With the close shave in London with the bomb, how long will it be till we get the conspiracy theories that it was the UK security forces and/or government that planted it to enable more suppression of human right etc?
These British bombers (I say "British" although they are not, but our daft government will have given them a bit of paper saying they are) seem to have such damned bad luck with their detonators.
I have no idea whether it was al Qaeda or MI5, but the fact is it wouldn't be terribly difficult to fake such an event if the FUD merchants felt that the pot was beginning to go off the boil.
What difference does it make to the government that a bomb attempt has been foiled - it's the same government more or less apart from a new home secretary, and they've already said what measures they want to introduce - none of which would have made any difference to this situation.
MI5 have nothing to gain from admitting they had no intelligence on it.
If Gov. were going to spin it, I doubt they would have come out and muttered what they did about vigilance and the general public. They would have turned it into an intelligence coup and paraded the fact that increased security measures were working in order to make GB look good.
Conspiracy theory:- Remember the McCarthy era in the US when everybody had to look for communists under every bush... well that almost gave him extra legal powers to submit whoever he wanted to interrogation etc.
Stalin more or less did a similar thing showing all sorts of internal and external threats to install himself as an absolute dictator.
Well Blair was trying to do this with the help of Reid by the taking to himself of extraordinary powers an the ability to override many of out fundamental tights.
To continue this trend he need to have propaganda and this, with the second car bomb, has all the elements of being "manufactured for public consumption".
It is Bullsh!t I can't believe that the terrorists are so inept. To plot and constuct a viable bomb and then to plant it without a detonator... pull the other one.
I keep remembering that this government by spin & lies mislead us into a war that has cost 10 of thousands of lives.
For reasons that are as yet still unclear.
They would think nothing of setting up this psuedo bomb plot to twist public opinion to accept more draconian restictions.
(OK Blair has gone - but the socialist organisation and their overarching plan for our future is still there).
My Hero Glynne, but thinking about DC as a Zionist, with our backs to the wall surely we'all would convert Zionism. The might of Israel and US armour would make any future plan succeed wouldn't it?
Unless of course we'all like to meet Vespa's 72 virgins or jonjii's higher planes. Myself, if I could write I'd go for a 1st class degree in history, learn fluent Russian, research medieval churches and join MI6. Knight Commander seems an attractive aim.
I might yet be eating my words what with a burning car and Glasgow airport...
But doesn't it all seem a bit half hearted?.. since 7/7 we have heard of lots of plots and seen the cock up at Stockwell and Forest Gate.
And then a few much publicised raids by security forces here and there..
2 empty car bombs in London and now a burning car in Glasgow... but so far no one has been killed or hurt.
Either we have been very lucky and we have the most incredible security forces, or we have the most inept terrorist plotters in the western world, or it is a set up.
All of the bombings, 9/11, 7/7, this, nightclub attempted bombings are all hoaxs and aimed at scaring the public into giving away freedoms. By hoaxs I don't mean not real, but staged, bombs really went off on 7/7 and planes went into the building on 9/11, but theres much more to it than that.
I find it quite amusing that they claim they some how found TWO cars with bombs in, JUST before they went off out of the blue.
Scrubs, sorry to disappoint but I have nothing "inspirational" to add. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we're wide open and not in control of our borders. 2,000 Muslims are under surveillance, I hear. If their conduct is suspect why don't we sling them out instead of waiting for them to do the dirty?
I bet many of you don't know that in America, Patriot Act I defines anyone basically in disagreement with the president (Bush atm), is a terrorist. Patriot Act II says that anyone classed as a terrorist by Patriot Act I can be executed through a military panel, basically a Nazi show trial, don't expect any justice, they haven't started enforcing it yet.
Thanx for the heads up otester and welcome. I've been trying to shine a torch to let people see the end of the tunnel - but I've now been branded a 'conspiracy theorist by' Tim, Tony et al.
Soon we'all realise we have been duped by those we trust, until that day I'll keep shouting from the roof-tops!
What difference does it make to the government that a bomb attempt has been foiled - it's the same government more or less apart from a new home secretary, and they've already said what measures they want to introduce - none of which would have made any difference to this situation.
MI5 have nothing to gain from admitting they had no intelligence on it.
Actually MI5 have a lot to gain. More money, probably more influence.
I've been trying to piece together what's going on. I still have no idea but you did ask. ;)
Here's what I believe are facts (feel free to ask me to back them up):
1. Blair was pursuing a totalitarian agenda. Not many explanations for that one eg:
a) He and/or someone who controls him wanted totalitarian control of Britain.
b) He has zero regard for Britain's long term future. Perhaps he was having a bet with Bush about who could pass the most totalitarian laws (Blair is winning by a mile).
2. We have been denied the full story of 7/7.
My favoured hypothesis (and that's all it is) before the last 2 days would easily explain the last 2 days:
Blair is part of a rogue Neocon element in the security services and possibly part of a wider conspiracy. 7/7 was covered up because any proper investigation would indicate such serious problems with the security services. Obviously, losing Blair would be a major blow. Thus they allowed/performed the terrorist attacks of the last 2 days to push Brown's hand and define his Govt in terms of 'security'.
Or maybe Blair was working alone and terrorists are stupid (can't seriously expect bombing citizens will achieve your aim).
There's no significant publicised evidence that the 7/7 bombers had anything to do with it. Something to watch out for: we've already been told that CCTV caught crystal clear footage of a man running from the car. Why haven't we been shown this? Will we ever see such convincing proof?
I'm still far from convinced that 9/11 was a false flag operation.
Yorker - if you want to push more Muslims over the edge, kicking out 1600 of them would be a good way.
Otester - please verify any/all of your last as it sounds like nonsense.
Thanx for the heads up otester and welcome. I've been trying to shine a torch to let people see the end of the tunnel - but I've now been branded a 'conspiracy theorist by' Tim, Tony et al.
Soon we'all realise we have been duped by those we trust, until that day I'll keep shouting from the roof-tops!
Yeah I get that as well. People mock what they can't understand, especially if it disturbs them.
Quote:
Otester - please verify any/all of your last as it sounds like nonsense.
DG
Otester's right. I was reading about it the other day, I don't remember where I read it, sorry, bit it would seem that that under the Patriot Act anyone who disagrees with the President can be classed as a terrorist. Although to date, this Presidential power has not been used.
DG
MI5 like everyone else always wants more money! but I'm not convinced that the most recent incidents could have been alleviated by increased funding. Nor could increased funding be argued to assist in the prevention of further incidents of this nature.
I think the real issue here, is that Bliar by his Machiavellian machinations, (assisted by Campbell & Mandelson) has created a government, which people regard with great suspicion and expect to use covert methods to manipulate the views of the population.
Such is the level of suspicion, that intelligent sensible people actually consider the possibility that these attacks may be orchestrated from within government.
The fear generated would then modify public opinion, allowing our socialist rulers to enact restrictive legislation, that otherwise would be unacceptable. To help further the march toward some ideological dream
I note in the ST this morning that Brown is considering surrendering some powers delegated to PM's by the Queen.
I wonder if this is an indication of how seriously the legacy of Blair is concerning Brown?
Or is it just whitewash?
Scrubs, sorry to disappoint but I have nothing "inspirational" to add. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we're wide open and not in control of our borders. 2,000 Muslims are under surveillance, I hear. If their conduct is suspect why don't we sling them out instead of waiting for them to do the dirty?
I'm in full agreement. Perhaps I'm being naive when I do not believe in any of the conspiracy theories of the government here. I find what you said more frightening then any of these conspiracy theories. Our doors are wide open. They're free to pass.
I was watching BBC News and they mentioned that the MI5 has those 'terrorists' under watch in Britain so I can only assume it was someone from the outside coming in rather than a 'homegrown' terrorist.
As it is, I have no idea. I just think it was a miracle that the car was being taken to the pound and the bomb still didn't go. A miracle of a conspiracy? I'd like to believe the former.
Amberlina I hope you are right and I am being paranoid...
But just how inept do you think the terrorists are that they can get the money to get into this country, get hold of 2 cars and park them in central London rigged up for horrific explosions AND NEITHER OF THE 2 BOMBS WENT OFF!!
The Glasgow Airport incident is more of a mystery... They can't be that bad can they.. 3 attempts in 2 days and no explosion, no one killed? (thank the Lord but nevertheless)
Amberlina - such a nice name, I thought exactly like you and my sister Kirsty thinks like you. Then I became aware of people I thought I could trust were in fact deceitful, selfish, uncaring sh*thead liars out to pursue their own aims without a care for the people they are supposed to govern. Think I'm a crack-head? Then read how the victims of 7/7 have been treated starting here:
None of these 'attacks' have been suicidal, which most 'terrorists' commit. Even on 7/7 the bombers did not know they were going to die, they were running a routine security operation working for MI5 and the bombs were believed to have been detonated through their mobiles.
Doesn't sound very 'terrorist' like at all to me, more MI5 like or Mossad.
Infact, the security of the underground was run by an Israeli's company and he was later arrested in Africa because he was foudn guilty of commiting theft/fraud.
I find what you said more frightening then any of these conspiracy theories. Our doors are wide open. They're free to pass.
This is in fact part of the "Blair has set things up" conspiracy theory.
The idea is that by throwing the doors open, creating massive overpopulation, causes serious sociological pressures. - Traffic congestion, Housing shortage, ghettoism multiculturalism, racialism, etc etc.
The problems created, enable legislation to restrict our freedoms and the setting up of a police state.
we've already been told that CCTV caught crystal clear footage of a man running from the car. Why haven't we been shown this? Will we ever see such convincing proof?
The officials, quoted by ABC News, claimed the man bore a "close resemblance" to an associate of terrorist mastermind Dhiren Barot, who was jailed for life in Britain last November.
But British investigators insist they are still desperately trying to clean up the CCTV footage from the cameras, which they hope will show one of the bombers parking his car. They say the raw footage is "what you would expect from a camera monitoring a street at night, with faces far from distinct".
Coverup or did the US police officials have their wires crossed? -- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465450&in_page_id=1770
Scrubs, you say I have labelled you as a conspiracy theorist, OK.
My comment to you, many threads ago, is that I can't understand the logic in ALWAYS believing the alternative view rather than the conventional or in ALWAYS believing the alternative news sources.
My comment to you, many threads ago, is that I can't understand the logic in ALWAYS believing the alternative view rather than the conventional or in ALWAYS believing the alternative news sources.
Official sources are usually biased towards the government, some of things that go on, like things I said about the contents of Patriot Acts.
Otester's right. I was reading about it the other day, I don't remember where I read it, sorry, bit it would seem that that under the Patriot Act anyone who disagrees with the President can be classed as a terrorist.
You can't complain about conspiracy theorists when your fact checking is as weak as this.
The Act is just as hard to read as I thought it was. At least British Bills are published with the amendments included.
Something about coercing and intimidating the govt in there. Is that what you thinks makes anyone disagreeing with the President a terrorist?
Interested Persons Memo: Section-by-Section Analysis of Justice Department draft "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003," also known as "PATRIOT Act II" (2/14/2003)
To: Interested Persons
From: Timothy H. Edgar, Legislative Counsel
Date: February 14, 2003
Re: Section-by-Section Analysis of Justice Department draft "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003," also known as "Patriot Act II"
.....Undermines fundamental constitutional rights of Americans under overbroad definitions of "terrorism" and "terrorist organization" or under a terrorism pretext; specifically by
Stripping even native-born Americans of all of the rights of United States citizenship if they provide support to unpopular organizations labeled as terrorist by our government, even if they support only the lawful activities of such organizations, allowing them to be indefinitely imprisoned in their own country as undocumented aliens. (Section 501)
Creating 15 new death penalties, including a new death penalty for "terrorism" under a definition which could cover acts of protest such as those used by Operation Rescue or protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico, if death results. (Section 411)
Operation Rescue is a pro-life group dedicated to abolishing abortion in the USA
For the last week I've been suffering from a lousy bout of summer flu which at times has left me almost incapable of moving, not to mention my suffering from lack of sleep and I've only been posting when I've been able.
I've spent Today up in London working and that hasn't helped with either of the above.
I have a major post I want to write on here for DC's attention, but at the moment I simply cannot work up the energy or inclination to do so, even though it is something *very* important.
Somebody please explain... if our security people have 2000 suspected terrorists under surveillance and are aware of imminent attacks why are these 2000 not frogmarched out of the country? And if the Glasgow bombers aren't even Brits WTF are they free to go swanning around this country? Is the Govt deliberately keeping a nice big pool of terrorists in our midst so that they can pretend to be fighting the so-called War on Terror?
Another thing. The IRA used good old reliable Semtex. Why does this latest crop of bombers use dubious and risky materials like canisters of gas and cans of gasoline and detonators that don't work?
Re: Glasgow attack - According to the news the police put a card through the door (asking them to get in touch) of the letting agency at 1pm-ish when looking for these suspected terrorists. The letting agency received the police card around 3pm-ish and the attack happened 10 minutes later... A CARD THROUGH THE DOOR??! Pathetic?
Another thing. The IRA used good old reliable Semtex. Why does this latest crop of bombers use dubious and risky materials like canisters of gas and cans of gasoline and detonators that don't work?
Because the Russians gave it to them as part of their training and funding programmes.
Because the Russians gave it to them as part of their training and funding programmes.
I suspect they are employed by MI5, kinda says it really, cheap materials, everything in England is done on the cheap :)
Also these 'attacks' are being used to get the 28 days without charge thing extended. Listened to BBC Radio this morning, reviewed the 'attacks' then went on to say that Brown wanted to push forward with extending the 28 days thing.
Government are the real terrorists doing false-flag operations and using them to get political advantages.
