It is with some disapontment that I hear DC will move cannabis to a class B drug really what a paucity of ideas.THis comes on the back of an increase in mental health problems reported over the last year.we really need to ge this into perspective.Just under 900 mental health (MH) cases due to cannabis last year compare this with the 130.000 in long term care for MH due to alcohol and the 8,000 killed each year due to alcohol.
Cannabis has never killed anyone, for adults whose brains are mature it is significantly a less harmful drug than alcohol.
Really what we need from DC is not pandering to the moral hysteria surrounding cannabis.
If we decriminalised cannabis and regulated for strength,purity and quality, taxed and sold to bona fide adults we would have a chance of lowerting the 1.3 billion we spend on the health of the 7.1 million hazardous alcohol users (1in6 of the pop).For adults Cannabis is a safe alternative to alcohol.
Prohibition doesn't work as every major report form Nixons marijuana report of the 70's to the 1998 report from WHO and beyond shows.
I thought DC would think out of the box but it looks like we are going to get the same old same old such a shame
With DC's admision that he has used cannabis this was a great opportunity to really open the debate and get beyond the moral hysteria surrounding cannabis.
Showed how the current classification of drugs is not at all harm based but more based on Witch burning superstition.
Come on fellow Tories wake up to the 21st century and lets have a sensible look at drug use in our society it is here to stay.THis should never be a criminal justice problem.We spend 18 billion a year policing this counter productive prohibition and gift organised crime 5 billion.It is beyond stupid that no one in the Party has the guts to speak the truth but panders to the failed ideas of the past.
The more you make a drug illegal, the more money and power falls into hands of violent drug dealers- they are the ones making our streets unsafe, NOT the drug users themselves (in the majority of cases). At the end of the day, nobody is causing any harm if they are smoking cannabis in their own home? And while we have an uproar at this, we are quite prepared to let thousands of people withalcohol problems drink themselves to death?
There seems to have been little real attempt by police to eliminate drug dealing at street level, and that's the main cause of the problem. Until dealers (the scum of the earth for the human misery their nasty business causes) are hung from their goolies, they will thrive while communities suffer.
There is only one way we can remove the drug dealers off the streets and that is decriminalise the drugs they are selling.Unfortunately it is a fact that the demand for humans to use psychoactive drugs is hard wired into our make up whether its that strong cup of coffee we have in a morning to the spliff someone has on a saturday night
Imagine if each adult over 21 was allowed to grow 5 cannabis plants on their own private property....poof a huge source of income would vanish for organised crime.
The emoney we would save the prisons we wouldn't need to build etc etc If only say 10% of current adult alcohol users turned to using cannabis the public health savings would be considerable.
A fact in America in 1914 when the first drug laws were inacted the level of serious drug addiction was 1.3% in 1971 when Nixon used more draconian civil liberty dening laws the rate was 1.4% today in the US the rate of serious drug use is again at 1.3% in the meantime the US has spent over 100 billion dollars.Destroyed families careers and livlihoods to a far greater extent than the drugs ever could.
Educate yourself about prohibition and drugs go here
Every culture since the beginning of time has used mind altering chemicals to some degree.You cannot name me one civilisation that has eshewed drugs even eskimos used burnt blubber to alter there conciousness.
The latest anthropological theory regarding cave paintings (35,000 BC) in differant parts of the world is that they were painted by shamens in pscyhedelic trances.(psylocibin mushrooms)
THe brain has specific receptors for cannabis for example aswell as other psychoactive chemicals ie idiginous hardwired receptors for psychoative chemicals why??
DMT a class A drug the most potent hallucinogen,it is in every human being (and most plants to a greater or lesser degree) although for the majority the concentrations are too low to change perception in waking states it has been linked to dream states.In affect we are all guilty of class A drug possesion by our very existance.
Our whole human history has been one of relationship to plants many psychoactive the earliest writings the rig veda talk about Soma attributed by scholars to fly agaric.THe history of tabacco the fastest human spread cultivated plant shows our affinity to anything that will change our conciousness,tea,coffee alcohol cocaine etc etc are intertwined with our human history.The renasaince has by some respected scholars been linked to the introduction of caffeine to the west instead of being drunk (alcohol) most of the time caffeine allowed a more intense exchange of ideas and we had the capacity to do something about them.
I suggest if you are at all interested in this subject you download a podcast or 2 from this address
This is a series of podcasts from the University of Berkeley by the leader in his field of Neuropharmocology.Not only does he make what would be an otherwise stuffy subject incredibly fascinating you will not get a more unbiased scientific exposition of psychoactive chemicals from caffeine to LSD.
Podcast 15-17 regards cannabis but if you have the time and inclination you couldn't put a better thing on your mp3 player INMO
How long have tea, coffee and tobacco been available to the general populace here, never mind cannabis and cocaine? And alcohol before the monks arrived?
Coffee and Tobacco were introduced from the New World by the spanish such was the veracity for these new psychoactive drugs that wars were fought over there supplies in fact some say the independance of the USA was due to the tax levied on tea (boston tea party) such was our inate desire for these substances (whether for good or bad)
Tobacco in its original form I think Nicotina rusticana was so incredibly potent it could knock you out.THe LD50 of caffeine ie the dose at which 50% of takers will die is 10grams thats around 20 large 500mg cups from starbucks.The LD50 of cannabis is unknown as noone has yet found a dose that could kill a human.So in one sense caffeine is more dangerous than cannabis.Caffeine when first introduced to the west was taken incredibly strongly the affects probably as stimulating as cocaine.
As an aside cocaine again came from the new world it makes me laugh that even 2 Popes endorsed the efficay of Vina Maria a combination of cocaine and cheap red wine the alcoholic version of coca cola.
Tea was from the East (east Indian tea company etc)
The Cutty sark was one of the fastest ships on the ocean as when the new crop of tea was produced high prices were paid for the first landings like Beaujolais nouveau and it cost a fortune.Huge sums of money where paid for these drugs.
alcohol use is incredibly ancient way before the Monks The discovery of 'Beer Jugs' in the Stone Age has confirmed that alcohol has been around since at least 10,000 B.C. It was commonly taken as mead or fermented fruit.Along with cannabis,alcohol is probably our longest psychoactive addiction although we would have to include psychedelic fungi in that line up to be correct although surprisingly psychedelics have little addictive qualities unlike the opiates, tobacco and alcohol..
We easily forget that it was a royal commandment of Elizabeth 1 that everyone should grow Cannabis for along with its psychoactive/medicinal affects it was used for sails where the term canvas comes from and ropes.Obviously this was predomnately Hemp the less THC containing strain of cannabis sativa
Please tell me if I am boring you as I did all this for my doctorate and I find it fascinating.
Yes our nation may have survived but it didn't really start to flourish until the arrival of these new world drugs.
.You could say the british empire was fueled by tea,coffee,opium,alcohol tobacco etc.I would also have to put sugar in there although not psychoactive in the strictest sense of the word it does have mood changing qualities a high and then a down so to speak.
Maybe our nation only really came to assert itself with the introduction of these new world psychoactive drugs like tobacco and caffeine etc.You must remember that before these arrived we drank from breakfast through to bedtime.For most of the population alcohol was the only safe source of water.
Both caffeine and tobacco are stumulants we went from the pretty mundane middle ages to the age of reason and enlightenment with the dawn of scientific thought etc.In many opinions the arrival of these stimulants and our move away from taverns to cafes to use these newly arrived drugs was the root cause in our shift of conciousness.
Many of the original coffee houses are now the banks and stock exchange houses we see now in London.Here people came to drink strong caffeine drinks smoke incredibly strong (by todays standards) strains of tobacco and discuss business.Imagine the shift in speed business had when the sellers/buyers where no longer drunk but wide awake on coffee and strong tobacco.
Cannabis and the even more prevalent at that time opiate derivatives where also used extensively for medicine.Queen Victoria was proscribed cannabis for her period pains.
What we really forget is that the original move to prohibit some of these drugs started less than 100 years ago.And more importantly that like today they have little to do with public health but more christian moral or racial prejudice.
In 1914 Cannabis was made illegal as it was a way for the WHite Christian Americans to persecute the newly arriving Mexican immigrants.THe lies that were spread about the so called dangers of cannabis then echo all the way down today although I'm sure Andrew Lansley won't claim that taking it will turn you into a bat (yes strange but true) I'm sure I heard someone saying from the shadow cabinet that one puff will turn you into a schizophrenic...please.When lies like this are told by our politicians that the general population know to be untrue there is no way we can have a sensible debate about responsible drug use in our society.Once we hear one lie like that from our Politicians are we going to believe them next time?
Quote from the advisory council on the misuse of drugs
""In the last year, over three million people appear to have used cannabis but very few will ever develop this distressing and disabling condition. And many people who develop schizophrenia have never consumed cannabis"
Let me make my position clear I am not pro drug and all drugs have a potential for abuse but
Prohibition is a total waste of time and money. It devalues us as intelligent responsible citizens with an inate right to make informed choices about what we do or do not put into our bodies.
I urge you to listen to this video by Noble Prize winner and one of the greatest thinkers of the twentieth century Milton Friedman about the total chaos Prohibiton causes in our society
I have no idea whether they were on "dope" if you are referring to cannabis but they certainly where on drugs like alcohol and caffeine,tobacco. I obviously haven't studied those people you mention in detail but for the times it would be unusual if they weren't.And if they were ill they certainly would have used medicines extracted from cannabis or opium.
Remember neuropharmacologically speaking (thats a big word isn't it ;-) ) looking from where we are now Both alcohol and tobacco are a greater threat to our health than cannabis for example.
You may also be making the mistake that drugs such as cannabis or say LSD have no constructive contribution to make to society beyond being safer than the current legal drugs which is enough in my book.For example cannabis has huge medical potential.Francis Crick has attributed his discovery of the double Helix of DNA to his trips on LSD.Carl sagen smoked dope and Einstein dabbled although it wasn't strictly illegal when he did.
By the way Bill Gates is well known for his use of cannabis and LSD didn't seem to do him any harm did it? Although he has to keep it well private nowadays but in the early dasy it is well documented
Well, I know quite a few clever people who don't smoke or drink or partake of cannabis. You seem to be saying that partaking of those things is an essential precondition for progress.
I myself, who am admittedly not in the top league for brilliance, have never felt the need for dope, gave up tobacco many years ago (just a bad habit at the time) and hardly ever drink... Most of the people I associate with are the same. What happened to our hard-wiring?
Good point I am not saying that it is an essential precondition for progress but neither is it a hurdle to progress but in many historical era's it has given us a push in the direction we are now at.
I suppose my point is that you will never remove the desire for a significant minority/majority (I guess the majority use alcohol) of society to want to use psychoactive drugs/change their Consciousness.As a species that is inevitable it may not be for you (do you drink coffee,tea you are changing your Consciousness if you went without caffeine for say a month and then had a strong coffee you couldn't deny that it wasn't a psychoactive drug)!!)but for others they will choose to use them.
As a society we need to make sure that these drugs are used responsibly that we as citizens have the best possible informatiion so we can make informed decisions...Prohibition puts the supply of these illegal drugs in the hands of criminal gangs that have no desire to regulate their product for purity,quality or strength and have no qualms about selling to our kids.Therefore prohibtion really is a stupid way of tackling the problem.
No pursuit in life is without risks and it is inevitable that a small proportion of society usually with a predispostion to addiction or from areas of poverty and lack of opporunity will develop problems as we see now with alcohol.As a society I would not choose to criminalise these people it is a short sighted dead end solution that gets us no where.
The around £22 billion pa we as a society waste on Prohibition including the £5 billion we hand to organised crime protecting their monopoly would provide incredible health care for those of our fellow citizens who end up with problems.
A very interesting paper was published by Transform
"Illegal drugs. The problem is prohibition the solution is regulation and control"
It says it far better than I could ever could I will join you in the "Not in the top league for brilliance" but this was written by top poeple in their fields very intelligently written and thought out.
Anyway thanks yorker for your input I've enjoyed our discussion so far it's not often I can get anyone to listen!!!!
Well, dude, I think we must agree to differ. I have read enough papers on the effects of cannabis to know that I don't want to be around anyone who's on the stuff, whether it's decriminalised or not.
I agree with you just as neither of us would want to be around someone drinking alcohol to excess.But if I had to choose give me the stoned dude rather than the drunk one at least I'm not likely to get my head kicked in!!!
But I would defend their right to make informed decisions about what they decide to put into their bodies or not.
We either have a state that nannies us and controls what we think say or do etc or one that engenders personal responsibliity and freedom.
The usual repost to that is that we would all go out and take drugs ..preposterous position.One of the most addictive drugs known to man is freely available and we don't all go out and smoke cigarettes.Treat people with respect and don't lie to them give them education not criminalisation and they can meke wise informed decisoins without having to throw them into jail.
The state needs to be a nanny to some extent because there are so many mindless morons out there. You can give them all the education you like but they still can't/won't make intelligent decisions.
You can argue that they should be allowed to decide what they "put into their bodies" but you then have a problem when they emerge into public and working space while under the influence.
You will always get mindless morons in society but is that an excuse to treat us all as mindless morans ..no in my book.
WIth regulation ahd education we have cut the incidence of drunk driving to as you say the mindless moran we could do the same with any drug for the more intelligent among us.
Drugs are pastimes for most humans whether intelligent or not.
I sure DC likes a glass of alcohol doesn't he I'm sure you wouldn't put him in the mindless moran category.
You see from my scientific evidence based view I do not make any distinction on legality or illegality of drugs but view them all as drugs with a spectrum of harm.This is the sensible least harm approach not the witch burning superstitions ignorance most of the population has around illegal drugs.
Our current propaganda makes a moral hystrical divison between legal drugs and illegal drugs.Remember say in the case of cannabis the original motivation for illegality was racial prejudice nothing to do with harm.
We seem to have in our society got this idea legal drugs ok illegal drugs dirty and immoral yet they are all drugs.
It is not mandatory to take drugs I like you rarely drink and probably use cananbis 2 or 3 times a year on my visits to Amsterdam. I have no desire to finance organised crime by buying cannabis off the street. My education informs me that for the times that I socially decide to change my conciousness I would choose the least harmful way of doing it and that is cannabis.
That in my own country I could be criminalised for such free informed will I find morally indefensible.
I'm not really interested in trendy prats peddling the use of drugs in public or advertising cannabis and then saying that those who disagree are being socially hysterical! Oh please look at the evidence "it's not killed anyone" you cry with reefer in hand - bollox!!
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Come on fellow Tories wake up to the 21st century and let’s have a sensible look at drug use in our society it is here to stay
Piss off and advocate dope use somewhere else please - trying to dress up cannabis as the "acceptable" side of drug addiction and then quizzing those that think otherwise because they are not with the issue - you've got fu**ing screw loose!!
Sorry for the naughty language all - not really very tolerant of druggies advertising their wear, even if we are exploring the issues or engaging with the voters on sticky topics of our modern times....blah blah blah!
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As a society we need to make sure that these drugs are used responsibly that we as citizens have the best possible information so we can make informed decisions
Oh and dude - yeah I'm really out of touch, not up with the issues, don't give a shit about modern trendy ideas on tolerance and I think everyone using or dealing in drugs should go to prison for a very long time - that's how well informed I am!!! In fact I'm a Dinosaur.
My take on weed is viewed from a different angle. My dear lady wife is in permanent chronic pain for which she has a regular intake of strong morphine based medication. You could say she is a drug addict if you consider any artificial stimulus drug taking. I've been up since three this morning because she is groaning in pain whilst sleeping. Her condition will eventually kill her.
There is an indication that cannabis could ease her pain for short periods and I for one am prepared to see her give it a try. She refuses because she would not want my firearms certificate put in jeopardy. But I am of the view that relief of her pain would be more important than me being allowed my firearms.
I would like to see it available at the chemist. It's no good asking our GP he is against prescribing stuff that is not on his list that he gets paid to prescribe by drugs companies.
I think everyone using or dealing in drugs should go to prison for a very long time...
Or, as I suggested, be strung up by the goolies.
Smokie has a very important point though, and I for one fully support the medical application of cannabis and think it shocking that the government has still not legalised this aspect.
Smokie - if your missus gets dope on the NHS then fine puff away - that to me is a seperate issue to this. Oh and I understand the distinctions I just don't care.
I have to square what tossers like this are peddling with young children. Telling them to avoid arseholes selling packests in the playground and just say no!
Its like all the other crap that gets thrown at us socially backward poeple nowadays - violent porn is harmless it's only for those that look at it, no need to worry about drugs they're only for those that use it and blowing poeple up on underground trains is for peeved minorities but that's cool... lets examine the issues and engage with society and start a debate as these social problems need to be looked at in context with out modern life styles and our society today!!
Take the trendy bull and shove it where the sun don't shine!!
Piss off and advocate dope use somewhere else please - trying to dress up cannabis as the "acceptable" side of drug addiction
I never advocated drug addiction.Addiction to any drug legal or illegal is something that needs to be addressed By public health not criminal justice.
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Oh please look at the evidence "it's not killed anyone" you cry with reefer in hand - bollox!!
No sorry true Cananbis has never directly killed anyone .THC has an LD50 that is far beyond an ingestible amount. THC cannot be absorbed into the blood past a certain limit, and this limit is much less than the LD50. No overdoses or deaths have resulted from THC.
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trying to dress up cannabis as the "acceptable" side of drug addiction
I'm sorry that you seem to have mixed up use and addiction they are 2 entirely differant things.Addiction is not to be encouraged whether Prozac, tobacco or any drugs.
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I think everyone using or dealing in drugs should go to prison for a very long time
Ridiculous unthought out comment for Cannabis alone there is an estimated 3 million users in the Uk. The present prison population is bursting at just over 80,000 where do you suggest we put the other 3 million plus.From the tone of your comments I guess stood up against the wall and shot is in your arsenal of well thought out answers to societies problems.
TO get back to the more well thought out responses to this post.Of course Cannabis should be available for medical users I think it is well over 13 states in the USA now have legal Cannabis for medical users although the federal goverment doesn't like it at all.
Hi Yorkie – I’m having a bit of fun here don’t spoil it!!
Now then Hi Dude – well my little reefer puffer A lot of people call me ridiculous and backward for these darned old fashioned ideals that I have, however, its people like me that you modern, in-touch and forward thinking Tories have to convince for your votes!!
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No sorry true Cananbis has never directly killed anyone
Well me ol’ reefer puffer - for your edification my office window looks down onto a very picturesque part of tower hamlets, bit like Beirut on a bad day! Anyway we have on the corner the Subaru Kids – these are Asians of between 15 – 20 years of age and its “their” patch you see. The Subaru Kids roam around in 3 brand new top notch Subaru Imprezza WRC, etc. etc. tasty bits of kit, you’d like them they’re metallic blue!!. Anyway some blacks decided they wanted a bit of the action and were promptly killed with claw hammers to the head (very messy loads of claret) – they don’t carry knives or guns round here as one the CID Ops centers is round the corner in Leman Street about 50 yards away. They were only selling dope as well!
So don’t you prattle on at me about dope doesn’t kill “directly”!! At dinner parties when you’re having a quick puff you hold onto that little piece of fantasy if it gives you comfort but just bear in mind the “dude” you bought it from!
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Ridiculous unthought out comment for Cannabis alone there is an estimated 3 million users in the Uk. The present prison population is bursting at just over 80,000 where do you suggest we put the other 3 million plus
Excellent – I do love statistics. Well I tell you what if we impose a say....25 years minimum sentence for those using drugs and the death penalty for them thats peddling drugs – I think that should solve the problem as not many will want to break the law. I think they call that deterrence?
So don’t you prattle on at me about dope doesn’t kill “directly”!! At dinner parties when you’re having a quick puff you hold onto that little piece of fantasy if it gives you comfort but just bear in mind the “dude” you bought it from!
The fact that the huge market for drugs is controlled by criminal gangs is one of the strongest arguments out there for a legalised and regulated market.
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Excellent – I do love statistics. Well I tell you what if we impose a say....25 years minimum sentence for those using drugs and the death penalty for them thats peddling drugs – I think that should solve the problem as not many will want to break the law. I think they call that deterrence?
I understand what it is you believe, but I am struggling to understand why you believe it. Why do you think it is right that an adult who makes an informed choice about what to put into their body should suffer a similar penalty to someone who has taken the life of another human being? I really don't understand where all your anger and hysteria is coming from. Enlighten me!
So don’t you prattle on at me about dope doesn’t kill “directly”!! At dinner parties when you’re having a quick puff you hold onto that little piece of fantasy if it gives you comfort but just bear in mind the “dude” you bought it from!
I'm glad at least we can come to agreement with the fact that cannabis hasn't directly killed anyone ever.At least we now have some common ground from your original post I thought you were beyond a sensible discussion.
What you then go on to illustrate only goes to confirm my earlier posts that Prohibition engenders street crime and violence.
Just imagine, if there is room in your brain for such a concept, if it was legal for adults to grown say 5 cannabis plants on their own property.Maybe then the Saburu kids wouldn't have an easy way to finance their Subaru Imprezza WRC.Maybe then they would have to go out and get a proper job.
Have you ever heard of alcohol prohibtion in the USA? See the crime that failed attempt at prohibtion engendered.
Like your approach Vespian, these poor sick druggies are out of touch with reality.
I took this extract from a report by the Health Department in New South Wales
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has concluded that along with known mental health problems, cannabis addiction can have a serious impact on the user's physical health.
The report said cannabis abuse can lead to cardiovascular, respiratory and immune system problems; it can decrease short-term memory and also slow brain development at a young age.
A few minutes on Google will result in plenty of peer reviewed data on the mental damage cannabis does.
Yes it does Kill! not only by the gang fights among the criminals who deal, but also by reducing users awareness causing accidents, and physiological damage with the resulting fatal disease.
While there are useful medicinal uses, It shouldn't be in the recreational sphere.
If Druidude thinks its fun let him get on with it.
But lets bang him up if he tries to sell his stupid message.
Glynne, based on the evidence, I believe that denying cannabis can cause harm is a foolish standpoint. However, it all comes back to an issue of choice.
Google has provided you with the evidence that cannabis can cause harm. Google could also come up trumps for if you wanted to demonstrate how playing rugbycancause broken bones, how eating red meat cancause cancer, how eating fast food cancause heart disease and diabetes, how riding a motorbike canmean you're more likely to be involved in a road accident etc, etc.
And so unless you would support severe penalties for people who choose to play rugby, eat red meat and ride a motorbike, I'm afraid your position is inconsistent.
The fact that quite sensible arguments made in this thread have met with hysterical cries of "it can kill" and "lock them up" show how weak the case for prohibition actually is, as well as demonstrating the extent to which people from this school of thought rely heavily on fear, ignorance and hysteria to justify their postion, both to themselves and to others.
Hi Matt – I just happen to think that legalising drugs is total rubbish - cannabis or otherwise – especially if the sole argument is because a lot of people do it and we can’t be bothered prosecuting them!! That’s a crappy way of going through life – apathy!! What gets me is that your argument now holds true for child porn as well – which coming from the police is way to fuc*ing weird a concept for me to get my brain around.
The real reason, I think, is that there isn’t the imperative to pursue criminal gangs because it’s to time consuming for the police. Why, because they have other politically more pressing targets they have to achieve - its all too much like hard work!
By the way – what do you say to all those campaigns aimed a school kids – you remember the ones just say no! Change them to “ah well bollox why not…. there’s bugger all we can do about it – yeah chuck us spliff or som’at a bit stronger if yoov got it!!
Sorry matt no enlightenment from me - as I said I’m a dinosaur.
I don't want to get into a debate about child porn as it is off topic and I'm actually unsure about the point which you're trying to make.
Clearly the "just say no" campaign which you refer to did not enjoy much success; that is if you class success as preventing young people from taking drugs. As someone from the generation who was subjected to this campaign, and as someone who was a bit of a rebel-teen, I can testify that it would have been easier for me to buy cannabis (if I wanted to)during this time of my life than it would have been to buy alcohol. Legalising and regulating the market would put help prevent under 18s getting hold of drugs.
Hi Matt – I just happen to think that legalising drugs is total rubbish - cannabis or otherwise – especially if the sole argument is because a lot of people do it and we can’t be bothered prosecuting them!! That’s a crappy way of going through life – apathy!!
Sorry, I forgot to address this point. The fact that literally millions of people in this country alone choose to take drugs is no argument in itself for legalisation. Just because millions of people committed genocide in Rwanda doesn't mean genocide is now ok there. My argument for legalisation is that no-body here is commiting genocide, rather making informed personal choices about how to live their own lives. People who have used ecstasy often report amazing experiences and increased self-awareness. However, nobody is saying that because of this we should all be forced to take ecstasy, so why by the same token should we be denied the right to take it because it may cause us harm.
It's a very good reason why the Subaru Kids and the thousands of scumbags like them ought to be rounded up and shipped back to whatever regime they absconded from.
And it's about time the government put a bomb under the backsides of ACPO and persuaded them to cleanse our streets of dealers.
It's a very good reason why the Subaru Kids and the thousands of scumbags like them ought to be rounded up and shipped back to whatever regime they absconded from.
And it's about time the government put a bomb under the backsides of ACPO and persuaded them to cleanse our streets of dealers.
Please read the above quote from Yorker in light of my previous comment...
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The fact that quite sensible arguments made in this thread have met with hysterical cries of "it can kill" and "lock them up" show how weak the case for prohibition actually is, as well as demonstrating the extent to which people from this school of thought rely heavily on fear, ignorance and hysteria to justify their postion, both to themselves and to others.
Hi Matt - please don't feel you have to address issues i'm just making uninformed, outdated and banal comments. As I said i'm not into all this trendy crap about drugs and drug taking so inject and puff away by all means.
Just please don't ask to legalise it for convinience and peace of mind and saying it does not kill. TTFN
Vespasian: Shut yourself up. You are a foul mouthed disgrace, your attitude to this discussion is sickening it just goes to show what is wrong with this country when impolite, delusional freaks like you get listened to by those in power above educated, polite and morally sound pillars of communities.
I hate drug dealers I think those that push drugs onto children should be hung, but people like you, vespasian, should be hung, quartered and fed to the pigs, the attitude you have shown here should not have a place in our society.
Druidude, you speak sense. Keep up the good work.
Glynne: you are aware that google isn't the place to go to find a balanced representation of all the scientific works done on any topic, I also expect that you think wikipedia is a place to get scientific facts from.
You must also understand that until recently all of the scientific reports linking cannabis to mental health problems were based on anecdotal evidence and presumptions, with very little solid scientific evidence making a causal link.
The only real link has been found only affects around 10% of people with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia and the link is with only THC. CBD, which is another active compound in cannabis, has anti psychotic properties, it can reduce and even negate the genetic risk that those people are at. It has been suggested that the ration between THC and CBD has changed significantly since the 60's with levels of THC increasing and CBD decreasing thus making today's cannabis more dangerous to those at risk, this may be true but it is impossible to check the quality of cannabis across the country in its uncontrolled state.
Of course this situation is entirely the fault of prohibition, which has failed to control the quality of cannabis and left it to criminals to dictate what quality of product they sell.
For all the years of prohibition, successive conservative governments along with their increase in punishments and enforcement of the drug laws have failed to reduce the prevalence of drug use in this country. And now, when the modern conservatives can only suggest the same rhetoric of past conservative governments as the only solution to a problem they created,and by calling for drugs safer than alcohol to further outlawed only goes to show that they are not committed to solving this problem.
I would support the conservative line on drug dealers who peddle to children, however to achieve more harsher punishments and enforcement the rights, freedoms and liberties of everyone in society would have to be eroded away. It also continues a corrupt and hypocritical action that criminalises otherwise law abiding adults yet fails to control a market that will never go away and also fails to protect children and other vulnerable members of society from the bad effects of abuse.
edit: Yorker you cannot blame cannabis for the suburu kids being able to exist so freely in this country, it is prohibition which provides a whole under-society where they find work by dealing in the prohibition created black market and where they are able to find sanctuary and hide within the shroud of this uncontrolled market.
i'm just making uninformed, outdated and banal comments
Agreed.
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Just please don't ask to legalise it for convinience and peace of mind and saying it does not kill
As anyone reading the thread can see, convenience, peace of mind and denial of potential risks don't actually form the basis for any of my arguments here.
Vespasian: Shut yourself up. You are a foul mouthed disgrace, your attitude to this discussion is sickening it just goes to show what is wrong with this country when impolite, delusional freaks like you get listened to by those in power above educated, polite and morally sound pillars of communities.
I hate drug dealers I think those that push drugs onto children should be hung, but people like you, vespasian, should be hung, quartered and fed to the pigs, the attitude you have shown here should not have a place in our society.
No need for that rant...it achieves nothing other than to weaken your otherwise often sensible argument.
Sorry vespasian. Matty is true there, however I hope you appreciate that impoliteness and potty mouth is bad. I am ashamed that I stooped to that level on that point in my post.
it has been estimated that 40% of violent crime; 78% of assaults and 88% of criminal damage cases are committed while the offender is under the influence of alcohol.
What would these figures be if
a) alcohol was banned
b) cannabis was legalised instead?
The thing is I never said the use of Cannabis was without risk.
Quote:
The evidence for the existence of an association between frequency of cannabis use and the development of psychosis is, on the available evidence, weak."
Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs 2006
I personnally doubt the above quote The evidence is that for adolescents heavy and sustained Cannabis use can cause problems just as alcohol and tobacco can.
But I stand by my observation that for adults with a spectrum of all drugs both legal and illegal Cannabis is down the bottom of the league well below alcohol and tobacco interms of harm caused..
All I said was that in comparison to alcohol and tobacco the risks to public health are significantly less for cannabis.
Also Prohibition doesn't work and causes more problems for society than the perceived problems it purports to save us from.
Quote:
For all the years of prohibition, successive conservative governments along with their increase in punishments and enforcement of the drug laws have failed to reduce the prevalence of drug use in this country. And now, when the modern conservatives can only suggest the same rhetoric of past conservative governments as the only solution to a problem they created,and by calling for drugs safer than alcohol to be further outlawed only goes to show that they are not committed to solving this problem.
Hi Spatfly – please don’t feel the need to apologies. It’s the other way round, I know I’m delusional, foul mouthed and impolite that’s how I am. I’m the one that should be apologising but I’m not and neither should you! You argue from the heart and I like that! it leads to a better discussion than most of the anodyne stuff on this site.
Spatfly don’t get to upset at me - I know that my views are not acceptable in today's socially challenged world or in line with modern though on drug use and society. All the advocates of drug taking here are far more eloquent than I will ever be on the subject for I know that I am out of touch - I am a dinosaur, I’ve admitted that. However, I disagree with all these trendy notions of making drugs legal – sorry I just think you’re all wrong! In fact I think you’re all as potty as me!
You can con yourselves into thinking that some drugs are not as bad as others all you like - if that slakes your conscience fine. Post your links, statistics and research place thesis after thesis at my feet and I will remain unmoved and still regard you as vexatious souls. As I said inject and puff away I am content to be the odd one out and think you’re all mad.
...you cannot blame cannabis for the suburu kids being able to exist so freely in this country, it is prohibition which provides a whole under-society where they find work by dealing in the prohibition created black market and where they are able to find sanctuary and hide within the shroud of this uncontrolled market.
You really are scraping the barrel, Spatfly, to find excuses for the scumbags and wreckers of human life. I don't suppose the Subaru Kids and their like financed their Imprezza WRCs from the proceeds of cannabis alone but they no doubt use the stuff to hook their victims and convert them to harder drugs.
You really are scraping the barrel, Spatfly, to find excuses for the scumbags and wreckers of human life. I don't suppose the Subaru Kids and their like financed their Imprezza WRCs from the proceeds of cannabis alone but they no doubt use the stuff to hook their victims and convert them to harder drugs.
....
Quote:
The fact that quite sensible arguments made in this thread have met with hysterical cries of "it can kill" and "lock them up" show how weak the case for prohibition actually is, as well as demonstrating the extent to which people from this school of thought rely heavily on fear, ignorance and hysteria to justify their postion, both to themselves and to others.
