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Title: Gordon Brown - is it time for him to resign?

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jonjii

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Messages: 1292
Registration date: 11/03/2007
Added: 10/12/2007 07:42
In the actual event of course you are correct Yorkie.. But if it was Joe Bloggs or Tom Cobbleigh or Susan Jones I would vote for them as long as they were Tory.... unless they had a particular problem.

I suspect George Galloway attracts his votes for his personality as do some others... But my MP was a Tory Back bencher whose name is unknown to most of you.

I agree with Canvas largely... yes I will vote for the Tory candidate in my constituency but in fact I am voting for the party with DC as leader...

The majority of voters who elected Labour did so partly because the package included TB.. not GB as leader who in 6 short months as leader has shown himself to be charmless, humourless and sulky. I do not believe labour under GB is electable.

yorker

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Messages: 3714
Registration date: 26/03/2007
Added: 10/12/2007 07:47
Leaders come and go, jonjii. They can fall under a bus or get knifed in the back. The Tories couldn't promise a full term under DC either. Everyone knew Broon was waiting in the wings... I'd even wager that Labour retained many of its voters because they knew Blair would soon be packing his bags.

Last edited by: yorker on 10/12/2007 07:49
canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 10/12/2007 13:25
No. Yorker. It is you who has it wrong.

Gordon Brown does NOT have a mandate to serve as PM.

He is an unelected leader.

It's a fact. Did the Labour Party vote Brown in as their leader? No. Did people vote for Labour at the last general election because Tony Blair promised to serve a full term? Believe it or not, yes, they did.

Last edited by: canvas on 10/12/2007 13:45
Votedave

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Messages: 1081
Registration date: 30/09/2006
Added: 10/12/2007 17:00
Quote:
Sorry Canvas, that is nonsense and you know it. Graham is right. The public don't vote for leaders, they vote for their local MP, period.


Graham and yorker are right technically but as jonjii says, people vote for parties on the ballot box, certainly at general election time if not local elections. If you were strongly allied to a certain party you would normally vote for its representative whether his/her name is Smith, Jones, Bloggs or Blenkinsop.

On the other logic we could potentially have a Labour MP for Kensington and Chelsea and a Conservative MP for Glasgow Central based purely on personality, which as I'm sure both Graham and yorker know is extremely unlikely.

Last edited by: Votedave on 10/12/2007 17:00
yorker

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Messages: 3714
Registration date: 26/03/2007
Added: 10/12/2007 17:09
Canvas, I'm no expert on Labour Party rules but if nobody stands against the one and only candidate, he/she gets a free ride like always. That was the will of the Parliamentary Party and there's nothing rank and file members can do about it. Too bad. 'Mandate' doesn't come into it.

Votedave

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Messages: 1081
Registration date: 30/09/2006
Added: 10/12/2007 17:42
I think the Labour rules are that the nominations of 12.5% of the MPs are required for a person to stand for leader.
John McDonnell, on the Left of the party, wanted to stand but was unable to secure that level of support.

I was amazed that none of them had enough guts to put even a token candidate against Gordon Brown which I think is lamentable. When John Major became PM, there was no general election, but at least he had a contest with Michael Heseltine and Douglas Hurd for the job.

Last edited by: Votedave on 10/12/2007 17:47
Jess

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Messages: 95
Registration date: 29/07/2007
Added: 11/12/2007 17:53
Well I'm with Canvas on this. It matters not a jot who the local candidate is, all the hype is on the governement and opposition leaderships with a little flurry now and then for the Lib Dems, and that is what governs the voting for general elections. At that time I, and a lot of people I know, are looking to see who might be best for the country. It's the local elections that cammands the interest for the local candidates.

Conservativesnotlabour

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Messages: 18
Registration date: 21/09/2007
Added: 11/12/2007 22:47
If only Margret Thatcher stayed on as leader until 1997, the Labour government may have never seen power with Tony Blair and we would not have Gordon Brown as Prime Minster… I could honestly say I want the Conservatives to run the country again.

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 06:53
Quote:
If only Margret Thatcher stayed on as leader until 1997


Wake up call! ha! What a good idea - NOT! That is deluded thinking. :)

chrisbarber

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Messages: 81
Registration date: 02/11/2007
Added: 12/12/2007 09:40
I know we wouldn't be bowing down the EU rule under Margret Thactcher.

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 15:54
What is the point in having a PM who can't do anything properly? Brown is clueless.


click here to read the article


Quote:
Brown will now go to Lisbon and sign EU treaty - but by himself

Wednesday December 12, 2007
The Guardian

Gordon Brown provoked ridicule among EU supporters and critics alike yesterday as he bowed to pressure from European leaders and agreed to attend the signing of the controversial Lisbon treaty, but arrive late and miss the main ceremony.

The prime minister was pressed by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and European commission president, José Manuel Barroso, to join the other EU heads of government. But he will miss the official signing ceremony and family photograph, leaving the foreign secretary, David Miliband, to face the cameras. Instead he is expected to arrive during the lunch.

Last edited by: canvas on 12/12/2007 15:56
scrubsupwell

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Messages: 761
Registration date: 18/11/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 16:21
Well yes Canvas, DB not speaking to Bush for six weeks is rather odd, I wish I could talk with him! He never personally answered my e-mails, I did receive one from the White-house in 2005 but when I opened it my computer crashed (OCGET.DLL); OK that's another story - Jonjii hit the spot, he is moody and sulks like my sister.

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 16:24
who is DB?

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 16:29
the final nail in the coffin? click here

Quote:


Police to be balloted over strike

Every police officer in the UK is to be balloted over whether they want to lobby for the right to strike, the Police Federation has said.

Police are not allowed to strike because of an act of Parliament, the Police Act 1996.

The decision came during a meeting of police officers to discuss a pay row.

The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith faces mounting pressure over her decision not to backdate a 2.5% pay rise for police in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.



click here to read the latest


Quote:
Police call for Smith to resign

Wednesday December 12, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

Front line police officers have called for the immediate resignation of the home secretary in their increasing acrimonious row with government over pay.
An emergency meeting of the Police Federation today voted that they had "no trust" in Jacqui Smith after she decided to delay a 2.5% pay award to officers in England and Wales.

About 1,000 delegates have also been discussing balloting their 140,000 members on whether to seek the right to strike.


Last edited by: canvas on 12/12/2007 16:35
yorker

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Messages: 3714
Registration date: 26/03/2007
Added: 12/12/2007 17:12
Which only goes to show what a dishonourable and thoroughly unpleasant gang we have reigning over us. I'm not at all happy about our police being treated in this shabby way. It's death to morale.

Last edited by: yorker on 12/12/2007 17:13
scrubsupwell

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Messages: 761
Registration date: 18/11/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 17:20
'Broon' Canvas - It is death Yorky, morale is low in TVP, I can see the gov. backing down on this.

yorker

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Messages: 3714
Registration date: 26/03/2007
Added: 12/12/2007 17:36
Yeah scrubs, so I should think. Sc*mbags sitting in their gravytrain...

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 12/12/2007 20:34
click here

Quote:
Cable's killer punch

So, when Mr Cable asked him which of the disasters to have battered the government over the past six months would haunt him most over his Christmas sprouts, Mr Brown tried a fresh, pre-prepared put down.

Tongue firmly in cheek, he thanked Mr Cable for his contributions over the past few weeks and suggested that, at the current rate of leadership turnover in the party, he might be back in his stand-in role not long after the next Lib Dem leader has been elected (next week, by the way).

And that was when it all went horribly wrong.

Party poppers

Killer Cable hardly hesitated: "Given his own position, he might not be wise to speculate about leadership elections."

Labour backbenchers looked like they had just opened their Christmas presents to find batteries have not been included.

Mr Brown's smile fell from his face like needles from a Christmas tree on Boxing day (if a Downing Street aide had fed him that line I fear for his or her future).

And the Tory benches joined the Lib Dems in donning their paper hats, pulling their crackers, firing off the party poppers and falling about in delirious festive fun.

Gordon Brown, of course, probably doesn't do Christmas - far too frivolous.

But how he must be wishing for the holiday period to arrive and give him a break, at least from his new nemesis Vincent Cable.

Jess

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Messages: 95
Registration date: 29/07/2007
Added: 13/12/2007 16:23
Can we pop back to Margaret Thatcher for a mo?

Quote:
If only Margaret Thatcher had stayed as leader...


I would really hate to think what our country would have been like by now! Maggie started so well, but by the time she went she had got Blairitis big time. Far too overcome with her own sense of power and self-rightiousness. It's the way she went that I find so tasteless, and the fact that this behaviour by certain members of her party continued towards John Major, Ian D-S and William Hague. And they are still rumbling in David Cameron's direction, but he appears to be more on the ball about this.
Leadership changes in the Lib Dems, however, have been less surrounded by vindictiveness. Kennedy had to go. His colleagues supported him as long as they safely could. Campbell's pressure to go came from the press and media more than his party. So maybe Brown needs to think (if he can) before he opens his mouth on this issue.
In the Labour party Blair became very much like Maggie in his own self-fondness, only differently. There was something insidiously sinister about the way he left the state of the country. Brown's under pressure from all directions, but still he stays!!!! The arrogance of the man overwhelms me! Ughhh!!!

canvas

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Messages: 3158
Registration date: 13/10/2006
Added: 13/12/2007 16:40
That was then and this is now.

let's talk about how Gordon Brown likes to pinch other politicians words and ideas...

Quote:
6) Brown’s quoting Obama. A reminder the Team Brown (esp. Douglas Alexander) is obsessed with American politics and ape successful tactics as freely as they do Tory policies. Their (failed) critique of Cameron as a “flip-flopper” is the charge Bush successfully levelled against Kerry in 04


click here to read the entire article

Quote:
“The great irony of British politics is that the big issues are not central to the debate in the theatre of politics, but they have to be dealt with.”

He quoted Barack Obama, the US Senator and candidate for the Democratic nomination, about the smallness of the politics set against the bigness of the challenges.


click here to read The Times interview with Gordon Brown.

Has Gordon Brown ever had an original thought in his life?

You can read philosophy but that doesn't mean you understand it.

What a big old fake he is!

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