Is this not the very best time to send Saud a clear message over its human rights plus many other things?
Imo yes, should David attend? again imo NO, however it seems like he is...........so what message should he be taking with him.....Hopefully not a welcome 'everything is ok' one
DC should follow Vince Cable's example and boycott this nasty individual by stayinhg away from the banquet. Typical of the double standards this country is now soaked in.
He did ban slavery in 1998/9 well recently anyway
A step in the right direction there
A quarter of the worlds oil production/supply
And its running out
PEAK OIL officialy happened in 2006
Talk is nessesary
Like him or not
One respite Yorker - Abdullah has confirmed my suspicions that our secret services were complicit in the London bombing in that they were warned of the attack and then for reasons unknown, totally ignored critical information affecting the very lives of the British people in London on that terrible day in 2005. I ask DC to insist on a full investigation into the July 7th attacks in light of the King of Saudi's information to the British government.
In an interview with the BBC before a state visit to Britain, King Abdullah accused London of failing to do enough to combat international terrorism.
"We have sent information to Great Britain before the terrorist attacks in Britain but unfortunately no action was taken," he said, speaking through an interpreter. "And it may have been able to maybe avert the tragedy."
A spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown said no warnings were received before the July 7 attacks on London's transport system: "We made it very clear at the time that no specific warnings were received from any source."
"We do have a very close intelligence relationship with the Saudis," he added. "We just happen to disagree on this point."
Reuters
BBC, Saudi king, British gvt, intelligence services. Nice soup. Are you being selective, Scrubs?
and you don't think it's suspicious that's it's taken over 2 years for the King to mention his concerns publicly and only did so then when he was coming on an official visit knowing full well it would give him some publicity which might divert concerns about his countries less than savoury human rights record?
scrubs - do you always go off on a whim once someone says something that may back up a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
even the most hardened conspiracy theorist surely can't believe that a government would allow its own citizens to be killed if they had a direct warning would they
No Tizzy I am not. I believe from extensive research (I do NOT conjure up my facts) and from the mouths of ex MI6 operatives that the terrorist group responsible for the July 7th bombings were known to British Intelligence. King Abdullah enforced that belief.
Please in future do not humiliate me by suggesting I am a conspiracy theorist which I am not. Your own quote says that the Saudi King 'sent information (it would have gone to MI6) before the attacks.
Sorry if I sound cross but I refuse to be 'put down' as stupid.
I admire your faith in humanity Mr Poshman and hope that is the reality; but governments lie, yes? A governments first principle is to protect it's people and this means that any government has to 'play with the dark forces' and in that game there is always a loser.
Astrocat - Such a diversion is naive and can never happen (or is your faith in prediction waning?
dunno scrubs - I always thought 9/11 was engineered by the Yanks to divert attention from the Gleneagles summit in which case the Saudi's might have had some general info due to their close working relationship with the USA
This discussion relates directly to one of my points in Breakfast with Beelzebub ( Here)
I agree that Abdullah should not be welcome as his is actually a pretty odious regime in our eyes.. and that all dealings with the Saudis, like the deal on the Fighters, are tainted.
But I think it is a large gap, requiring a massive leap of credulity, to take from a dirty self interested deal for oil in exchange for fighters to prop up a regime we have been dealing with for decades, and who is on the side of the "angels".
or
3 put up terrorist incidents at the start of Brown's premiership designed to make him look powerful and in control (but which backfired in that they were such obvious damp squibs and one of the perpertarators got himself so badly burnt that he died).
to
The wilful destruction of the World Trade Center, 4 planes and around 3,000 people. (In fact even allowing this to happen without some attempt at interdiction stretches my "faith" in the power structures... when did the white hats turn black?)
(By the way Scrubbs I don't believe and apology is nearly enough... But furthermore I don't accept that getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing to do. Also note that most of the misery caused is by the various "rogue elements" and insurgents within Iraq terrorising their own people and making it hard to govern.)
A brilliant piece in The Independent this morning by Robert Fisk, who pulls no punches. Here's a sample...
Saudi Arabia is a state which bankrolled – a definite no-no this for discussion today – Saddam's legions as they invaded Iran in 1980 (with our Western encouragement, let it be added). And which said nothing – a total and natural silence – when Saddam swamped the Iranians with gas. The Iraqi war communiqué made no bones about it. "The waves of insects are attacking the eastern gates of the Arab nation. But we have the pesticides to wipe them out."
Did the Saudi royal family protest? Was there any sympathy for those upon whom the pesticides would be used? No. The then Keeper of the Two Holy Places was perfectly happy to allow gas to be used because he was paying for it – components were supplied, of course, by the US – while the Iranians died in hell. And we Brits are supposed to be not keeping up with our Saudi friends when they are "cracking down on terrorism".
Like the Saudis were so brilliant in cracking down on terror in 1979 when hundreds of gunmen poured into the Great Mosque at Mecca, an event so mishandled by a certain commander of the Saudi National Guard called Prince Abdullah that they had to call in toughs from a French intervention force...
See full article:
http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3109869.ece
Thanx Yorker, an interesting link and perfectly formatted such that the politically correct 'cut and paste' brigade have no bones to chew on. Truth comes in many forms and a wise man instead of searching for the negative, will extract perfect reasoning from the vernacular regardless.
Yes Jonjii you are a man of heart, an apology is not enough, we must re-build Iraq to at least prevent malnutrition and disease.
I intend to examine yr 'rogue elements' to satisfy myself they are not just people like you and me taking to the streets because their families have been decimated.
One of the richest men in the world who has,
a place in the sun,wives ,conqubines,the finest food,luxury and comfort on an unimaginable scale.Servants ,ministers,ambassadors,all
of whome could deliver a message.
This is about breaking a deal / promise.
This is about his honour.
His personal promise / word.
Only he can break this.Honour again.
Anything but this, can be dealt with by proxy.
Britan at present is,cold ,dark,damp,foriegn,
an unpleasant destination from his perspective.
He has been FORCED to come here then.
Only his "honour" could do this.
This man IS oil ,so this is what its about.
What does this mean: (a few facts)
All ecomonic growth is oil driven.(fact).So economic growth
will stop then decline,(a collapse that will make the american GREAT DEPPRESSION look like small change.)
Our oil comes from SAUDI,(mostly).
Can we avert this;I think not because;
All current reserves are spoken for.
China buys 90% of the worlds resorses and they
are very rich.In a free market they win hands down.
We will have to become an agrairian scociety again
or die.No tecnology will save us it is a hoax.
The scientific law,"the conservation of energy,"
Also tells us this.
You may suspend rational thought and pretend this
this is not going to happen.
But it will happen and my guess is within the decade.
Yes, America is declining despite a massive jump forward to regain it's standing, which has failed completely despite the meticulous manoeuvring from the secret planners.
Iraq was meant to be a 'run in the park' and now the Putin/Clinton pact inherited by Bush has run out and Bush is looking scared, why? because Part II (Iran) is way behind and becoming harder to implement because of (i)public awareness and (ii)that intense itch, the IAEA who I name as 'the incorruptibles'.
Both China and Russia have stopped playing because they have been burnt by those 'New World' architects, their promises having been broken.
Why do you think the Saudi King is really here? Because it's payback time, dudes - OPEC needs a boost.
For now my message is simple, try to love each other as much as you can and let God do the rest, why? because humanity has failed to guard the exquisite gift of life apart from it's own lifeblood patsies and their controllers.
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot
There was no reason for the treason... or was there?
I did accept the invitation to meet King Abdullah. That’s not because I wanted to send an “everything is OK” message, as Storm puts it. But the relationship between Britain and Saudi Arabia is an important one. Most of the meeting was spent discussing vital issues like co-operation on counter-terrorism - including radicalisation inside and outside mosques in Britain, and the importance of stopping this and stopping the sources of funding for it. We also discussed other issues, like the Middle East and Iran.
Astro I am not sure I agre. Remember DC could very easily become PM in the not too far distant future (Please) so Abdullah who is undoubtedly astute and well briefed will want to keep com lines open.
However I am not sure that the relationship with Saudi should be "Important" Yes I know there is oil but there is a large faction in Daudi funding Bin Laden and mob. Plus there is the whole aspect of deals with the devil that I am struggling with at the moment.
King Abdullah might view DC as GB's natural successor, the only problem I have with that I wonder why King Abdullah would single out the UK opposition for discussions when he didn't speak to the opposition parties in either Spain or Germany. If the King was so interested in opposition politics in the West then surely he would have taken the time to have similar discussions with opposition parties elsewhere?
No. If the Saudi King invited an audience with DC, you can bet he had a damn good reason for it over and above being polite to a man who has aspirations of becoming PM one day.
Don't forget, the Saudi King has met with Zapatero, Brown, Merkel and the Pope and will be going to Turkey. Merkel is reporting to Bush when she goes to the US this weekend. You would think that if the King was going to have talks with anyone, it would be Sarkozy being that he's a new President and thus worthy of a visit, but Sarkozy left for the US and is cosying up to Bush.
Marhaba, jonjii! Just back from Israeli-occupied Palestine....
now trying to catch up here.
"We also discussed other issues, like the Middle East and Iran,"says DC but he doesn't elaborate. That's what we want to hear about, not the standard, bland, drip-drip blurb about how vital the House of Saud and the Israelis are to our interests in the 'war on terror'.
Thanks scrubs... lots of horrendous things, don't know where to begin - like most people who take the trouble to go see for themselves I'm shocked and angry by Israel's racist cruelty even though I've seen it all before, and by their general disrespect and contempt for everyone including their great buddy-allies the Brits - and still gathering my thoughts wondering how best to use the info.
Thank you jonjii. Neocons and Zionists are an unfortunate fact of life and a cause of mega-misery and mega-deaths. Why are you so squeamish about seeing them in print? Do you want them airbrushed and made taboo words?
What I am doing is trying to get you taken seriously by whoever reads your stuff. You are erudite and impassioned but as soon as you start with the rhetoric anyone who does not already think like you will discount your diatribe as just that.
You don't want to keep on preaching to the choir.. you want people who don't actually sympathize with the lot of the Palestinians at this stagem, to stop and think and say "Really, are we supporting such cruelty?".
Quite right, jonjii, but here I can sound off because I don't take webcameron too seriously and I suspect its readership is paltry (note we are never given a clue as to how many 'visitors' tune in).
As always, and like everyone else I know, I come back from the West Bank incandescent with rage at the worsening injustice and humiliation to the Palestinians and the appalling rudeness that even we are treated with, and the continual realisation that a large number of unprincipled fools at Westminster not only turn their backs but actively support the regime responsible. I'm deliberately giving myself space to cool down before saying anything.
Scrubbs I am far from belittling Yorkie, I have HUGE respect for him and , although I often do not agree with his take on things, I always read them as he has thought things through.
In addition Yorkie has made me modify some of my own attitude.
Before we started debating I was sort of pro Jewish and fairly concerned about Israel.. I remain fairly pro Jewish but now I am extremely concerned about Israel and actually believe that they are unscrupulous bullies. Their persistent encroachment and argumentativeness mean that they threaten instability in the whole of that region.
Yorkie and I also disagree on the practicality of a solution.
As things now stand I see no peace in my lifetime.
But if we are to achieve a peace, of sorts, justice and fairness and historical boundaries may not be possible in the short term.. Violence must stop.... rather we need a non violent Gandhi type movement to shame the Israelis into withdrawing.
I don't say it is ideal. It is just that the reality is that 40 years on the Palestinians are worse off than ever and are being systematically ground down...
Their election of an organisation committed to continual violence and the elimination of Israel didn't help...
Hell Scrubbs I don't know... It is just that the diatribe and anger and the rhetoric and shibboleths and name calling do nothing to further the argument. Yorkie doesn't need to convince me or you..
He should be aiming at the fence sitters.. those who either don't know or vaguely sympathise with Israel at this stage but can be persuaded to examine the situation and see another side.
By the way what arrogance are you refering to.. I hope I wasn't arrogant if so I apologize unreservedly.
Accepted Jonjii, I am so pleased Yorky has modified your thoughts on Israeli bullies - Lets face it Yorky must be our resident expert on Palestine as you are on South Africa.
You build me up too high, scrubs. I'm no expert (to be so involves a lifetime's study), just someone who is willing to learn and keep himself informed. I wish those Zionist supporters in Parliament would do the same and understand the true nature of the military regime they are blindly devoted to.
