Does anyone have any links for this?

I have some stuff on sites that pinpoints how the energy generation works. I am after information on the setup costs and onward costs of any of the 13 efw facilities in the UK.

Also, if anyone has any stats out there for the amount that the energy is sold back to the national grid at that would be great.

Plus if anyone has any links that indicate how much energy is created from a tonnage of waste etc that would be much appreciated.

The newish waste/power unit in grantham burntdown last month
after several weeks of sporadic fires.

Does'nt answer your question but if it was one of the 13,
well ,then there were 12.:)
:)

Hi mrposhman

These links may give you a start

Generation from land fill case

TECHNICAL AND ECONOMIC ASSESSMENT OF ENERGY
CONVERSION TECHNOLOGIES FOR MSW Waste incineration generation

Hi Mrposhman

I've been looking and asking round, cannot find any set up cost details, seems each is a one off, and costs are based on individual design and arrangements.

These people may be able to give you some help.

Chartered Institution of
Wastes Management
Thermal Treatment Special Interest
Group
9 Saxon Court
St Peter’s Gardens
Northampton
NN1 1SX
Tel: +44 (0)1604 620426
E-mail: [email protected]
Their website is http://www.ciwm.co.uk/

Electrical sales will be pretty standard - you can use on site, sell privately or to the grid.
Not sure if ROC's apply.

This blurb contains some information which may be useful Coventry & Solihull Waste Disposal Co.
and SmartestEnergy


For a definition of an LEC this DTI fact sheet by HM revenue & Customs gives the details and offers some useful links some of which should help get a better handle on elect sale income.

Microgeneration and the Climate Change Levy

Hope this is of help!

Thanks glynne I will get started reading through the links.

A bit more more data.

Construction cost for a modern incinerator from £70 to £110m Break even requires about 300,000 tonnes of waste per annum. Payback up to twenty years.

Energy output MJ per Kg.
Coal (as reference) 25 - 30

Food & Garden waste 1.8
MSW 8-12
(Municipal Solid Waste)
Wood 8- 15
Paper & cartons 11.4
Mixed Plastic 21

The case studies in this Environment Agency report have links with costs.

This contract outline for theBIZKAIA WASTE TO ENERGY PLANT
PROJECTmakes interesting reading.

Glynne am I right in saying that the energy produced is not meant to be cost effective.. it is just some payback for the cost of disposing of waste which they were bound to do anyway (in other words reducing the land fill cost)

If so have we got any ideas whether they ares less polluting and less CO2 producing than landfill.

In fact, given the cost of these things, plus the running costs, less the amount received from selling the energy how much more expensive is it to dispose of waste this way as compared to landfill?

Just curious.

jonjii, that was actually my reason for wanting some details on this.

I can't see how it will be cost effective due to the amount of bio-degradable waste we are anticipating saving by 2020.

Anyway, I'm off to do some reading into this I think, I want to drive and produce a total breakeven analysis for one of these facilities!! May not be that easy though

Jonjii
Need to do a little work to give you a reasonable answer.
Will work on it but briefly;

The greens are against incineration - and have managed to close several incinerators.

Argument seems to be; Incinerating is bad - ? what do we do with the waste - Answer; stop producing it!! Waste is bad!

However we do produce waste so;
Recycle all you can then - landfill or incinerate.
Landfill has problems because the waste contains toxic materials & heavy metals - also decay means there are significant quantities of gasses produced - Not C02 but methane etc.

The land fill sites are capped when full, and these gasses are collected and either burnt off or, often recovered and used for power generation.
In fact currently the amount of power generated from waste (including sewage) is around double that produced by wind.

Landfill sites have to meet very tight requirements and we simply don't have enough.

I'll do a bit of work and give you a proper answer.

Glynne, with regards to waste I feel the greens may actually have got something right (first time for everything!!) as we must try to get our society into a position where we landfill pretty much nothing.

You've missed composting which should be a massive part of food and green waste "recycling".

The government should be doing more with regards to secondary markets for other plastics than what we currently have and hence in the future energy from waste will be unnecessary.

I think we are way behind other countries in terms of this "technology" too as we currently capture around 9% of the potential methane for power generation.

Mr Poshman, Hi, I am afraid your take on the Greens getting something right is at odds with mine.

The Greens really want us back living in caves and mud huts, Ploughing with horses and so on.

It just can't happen... We either progress or we regress.

I agree that reducing the amount of waste produced is becoming more and more urgent. We can start with the packaging industry and go from there.

You must remember that packaging is a marketing tool. An inbuilt perception which has been programmed into our psyches is that the more elaborate the packaging the more exclusive,expensive or better quality the goods are.

Been into a Pound shop recently? One doesn't see much fancy packaging there does one?

Here in Japan if ine buys something it is often tripple wrapped and then that lot put into an expensive printer paper packet with string handles.

I was once ranting about this phenomenon to a buyer of a major consumer durable wholesaler who pointed out to me that they had to insist that Parker Pens, for example, came in a pretty secure plastic bubble on a card inside which was another plastic display box inside which was the pen because if they didn't half the pens would be nicked before making it to the till. (Not only merchandising but security as well). (Incidently Parker replaced every broken open bubble returned to them by their wholesale customers)

I could go on .. the fast food or the convenience coffee that we so often have served to us in Styrofoam clam shells and beakers.... Yuck!!! I don't think I have ever had a cup of tea that was drinkable in such.

Or the PC industry.. Last time I bought a new computer it came in 2 big boxes of hi grade.. outer covered with brand names and product ID.. inside were other boxes, actually brown, enclosing the foam forms holding the PC and the screen each wrapped in fairly thick plastic. The keyboard in another carton as were all the wires and connections.... But hey.. the packaging cost the firm marketing the PC maybe £2 or £3 but I bought £1,200 worth of gear and once I had unpacked it the sellers could be confident that it would be unmarked and undamaged.

So, hate it as much as I do, I can see the point that there wasn't undue packaging involved.. although I seemed to have to dispose of 3 black bags worth of foam and plastic not to mention the carton.

OK Now the dillemma.. We are an advanced society which is thriving on commerce, a lot of which involves the selling of highly expensive and high quality goods.

Of necessity there is waste.. that waste needs to be sensibly managed but we cannot remotely begin to suggest eliminating it.

Let us consider recyling seperately as I believe a lot can be done here.. at the moment the trouble is that it costs way more than it achieves, I think.

I am surprised and a bit dissapointed that this thread seems to have gone on the back burner.

I was trying to play devil's advocate with my defence or rationalisation of Packaging.

I personally despise over packaging but wish to see sensible ideas for cutting it back.

Also recycling. How can we make recycling commercially attractive?

I would love to call for the re-introduction of returnable bottles with a deposit for the drinks industry.. I just don't know the economics.. I know that when I was a student I worked for a while at a liquor store and the owner hated the empties because they took room, required handling, and yielded no profit.

Anyone got any suggestions?

I bought a second hand computer which came in a large cardboard box filled with what looked like air bags rather than the usual bubble wrap. The supplier asked users to puncture the bags before diposing of them. Once deflated the entire space taken by the inner buffering was about a three inch cube.
The cardboard box was recyclable.
I thought this was really neat and could be much more widely used.

Only just come back to this thread.

I didn't make myself clear as I only think the greens have got the reduction in incineration right.

I think there is a fantastic opportuntity with regards to reducing packaging in the first place and then recycle what is left over.

The problem is the government is not concerned with tackling big business. The Waste Strategy from May encourages councils to charge homeowners for excess rubbish, yet there is merely a verbal agreement with business with an option to bring through further legislation in the future. Why should homeowners whose major waste is provided by the businesses be punished and nothing be done about the supplier.

The fact is most businesses will see this as a possibility to look good but if it generates negative profits for them they won't do it unless it comes through as legislation and thats where we will find ourselves. I would have had so much more respect for the government had they brought legislation through this year.

For an example take McDonalds. Fries - cardboard container, Burger - cardboard container, Drink - I think its a cardboard container with a plastic lid.

So therefore why can't we recycle the cardboard, recycle the plastic (not sure what type of plastic it is, there may the possibility of changing it or creating the end user market for the type of plastic) and the food can also be recycled.

What do we get at McDonalds? 1 bin for all rubbish, probably all landfilled as I very much doubt they have someone out the back resorting their waste. Why don't McDonalds provide recycling facilities? Even with the increase in lanfill tax it is cheaper for them to landfill it all.