http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7060607.stm

Looks like this is a victory for DC and the tories.

maybe mr brown has finally decided that taxing isn't the only way to incentivise changes in behaviours

More like a victory for common sense

Ths was about discouraging bad behaviour and incentivising good behaviour. OK in principle. A pity they're not going ahead. How else would you do it?

From the BBC link above:



(for those who tend not to read a link without a precis.)

yorker it all depends on the council really.

in some places this may work but unfortunately houses with more people in will obviously produce more waste, this however does not mean that they recycle proportionately less than houses with less people living in them. Hence this approach is surely unfair.

The best approach would have been for May's waste strategy to concentrate far more on the companies that produce the packaging as opposed to punishing those that merely have to buy it whether you want it or not.

What would also be helpful from the councils would be a weekly food waste collection (all of which can be composted etc) and alternate fortnightly collections of recycled waste and landfill waste.

Should the council provide smaller bins this would also help, though this could also lead to flytipping much the same as the fines proposed by defra. Fines are not an incentivisation measure. Perhaps a more appropriate measure would be the amount of waste recycled could provide a rebate to the homeowner as the council will itself save that money from reductions is landfill tax.

But the most effective method would be to educate people as to what they can recycle, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who arent sure what can and can't be recycled especially where plastics are concerned. The best bet would be to attempt to create secondary markets for these products.

Any of these measures would do and would probably help at least as much as the policy set out by defra. I would like to know Hillary Benns view on this however, as I think David Milliband was environment minister when the waste strategy was drafted

Here it's weekly food waste and fortnightly recyclable waste, which seems about right. But one way or another households that generate more waste should be charged more (or not allowed a rebate). It's like the poll tax - fair enough in principle, don't be put off by sqwawks.

i'm not put off by anyone.

so how does this incentivise people if you use the following example.

a single person household recycles 10% of theri waste.
a family recycle 50% of their waste.

the family obviously will produce more waste but would end up being charged for waste that may not be recyclable, yet the single person would receive rebates for very small amounts of recycling.

Hence the reason this is unfair, if all waste was recyclable i would probably agree with this policy though as it isn't i cannot agree with it.

what area of the country do you live in that has a specific food waste collection? or is it thrown in with your landfill waste?

Yorker, I think you're getting caught in the green elitist trap.

Those who can afford to buy another bin, those who can afford the congestion charge, those who can afford a Humvee - those who can't will not be subsidised by the above, until we see accountable hypothecation.

tizzy's right.

i would anticpate the first councils to bring this in being in poorer areas hence punishing poor families for potentailly something they have no control over, eg non recyclable products

I'm still not sure how both local rates, and refuge collection should be charged.... fairly for all, if thats possible..Should rates be charged by number of rooms, overall mtr/2, number of occupants, or some combination of all.

Refuge here is collected fortnightly,, one week green wheely bin ( supplied by council ) for garden waste, and cardboard...Blue box for newspapers, mags + foil and tins. large bag for plastic bottles... nothing will be taken unless it is actualy in the bin, box, or bag..

The following week is just food and other waste, again anything left in sacks in addition to the wheely bin will not be taken.. and lids must be at least half closed... The system is not only unhealthy, especialy in the summer,, but unfair... a family of 3 can manage, but a family of 5-6 can't..

We have a conservative council so we can't put all the blame on the goverment.. Something has too change even if a fee is paid for extra rubbish taken...at least give us a choice..it can be taken to the local tip if you wish to do so free...

Naturally. The single-person household may be paying the same council tax as the family living nextdoor.


Don't understand. Why do they in particular have no control over the waste they buy?

More attention must be paid in understanding why people have so much waste these days. I remember clearly that up to around 1990 my bin was never full during collection time, now its either full or close to full, and mostly with environmentally unfriendly packaging.

But bins were emptied at least weekly then,,,, and they took away any rubbish left out...punish the suppliers, not the users....

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7067971.stm?dynamic_vote=ON#vote_pay_throw_rubbish

Unfortunately it looks as if the pilots are going ahead.

Yorker - Families buy more and hence buy more packaging that goes in line with that. They will also generally throw out more food waste. Unfortunately this is just the way things go and hence they do not have control over this, ie. packaging.

I don't like Ken Livingstone but he has come out today saying "Why encourage Londeners to recycle if the government is simply going to turn a blind eye to businesses?"

Now the question is how do we get his labour cronies to understand this.

Has anyone read the waste strategy from May 2007? It would appear that businesses are being overlooked and do not have specific targets they must hit despite the fact that if a study was undertaken into peoples rubbish, i wonder how much is useless packaging.

Had the government exceeded all other areas of waste management and it was only down to the public as to how much the country recycled i would probably have to agree with a tax but the fact is there is so much the government should be doing but they find it much easier to simply pass that responsibility onto the people of this country. They should be educating people, i mean how many people know what plastic can be recycled? How many plastics do the majority of people think exist?

Also, why have they not yet taxed carrier bags to reduce the usage of these? Ireland has proven that this works as its clear that these ridiculous point system doesn't work, this would start the recycling phase from before people leave the supermarket and encourage recycling to continue when they get home.

The government has also stated that they want to increase energy from waste (EfW). As it stands only around about 9% of our landfill sites produce energy. Thats fair enough but as far as I understand, only biodegradable waste produces the methane that can produce EfW, I thought the idea was to reduce wastage so why should we be spending money on a power source which hopefully won't be there soon?

This yet again strikes me as an idea that the government is trying to instill in our minds to suggest that they are doing something about waste and energy, when they simply aren't

Er, how about punishing the users for not punishing the suppliers? The customer is king, someone once said...

the vast majority of packaging will come in whatever format we want to buy our food, hence we can't influence the supplier. Thie NEEDS to be done by the government

No, you can complain to the retailer and go shop elsewhere (like a market stall where you can take along your string bag). Or you can dump the packaging back at the retailer's.
This is something the user can take care of himself, especially now the burden of recycling the stuff falls on him.

might help if people consider what they buy a bit moore carefully.

we live in a supermarket society, where convenince is king.

its quite tragic when you consider were an island... have great swatches of farmland... yet our idea of "fresh" is something that comes shrinked wrapped on a plastic tray - imported all the way from Peru!

no wonder we're getting lardy too.

so yorker, you basically agree with the government that they shoukld sit back and "encourage" the citizens of this country to do something about it when the government seems to do nothing to help.

the government should be leading and giving the country a direction on where they want to go with waste management.

if the government lead from the front as opposed to putting taxes on everything (not the answer to every problem you know) then our waste targets would be far more achieveable.

how many people do you think will actually do that? is there enough stock in our markets? NO, will people take the packaging home then take it back again? again i think not

the practical solution is government leadership

just found this on my local council website, showing a food waste trial occurring in south london, not sure who the councillors are and which parties they are involved with but if they were labour policies they would have been included in the waste strategy from may 2007 but i don't remember reading it. am planning my 2nd read of it shortly to check.

http://www.merton.gov.uk/living/environment/recyclingwastemanagement/recycling/food_waste_trial.htm

Hardly. I'm just saying that the consumer, who makes the purchase decisions, ought to take more responsibility and exercise his/her power. Of course the government should show leadership but we've been waiting... and waiting. As you know it's terrified of the food lobby and the drinks lobby...

The obvious solution is the one taken by the old LibDem Bristol Council. Simply reduce collections of non-recyclable waste. Recyclable waste is collected once a week. Most people's bins aren't big enough so people are encouraged to do some recycling. Once they find recycling is worth the effort they'll do more and more.

People moan like crazy initially and leave rubbish in bin bags but it's almost winter so no rats.

Tripled Bristol's recycling rate.

there should be a weekly food waste collection, no other waste allowed. all other waste (including recycling) should be collected on a rolling fortightly collection.

i have been thinking though about these apparant taxes that they want to implement, and i don't really know how they can monitor them to fine people. What are they to do? weigh your bin and weigh your recycling, then work out the proportionate rate of recycling? hardly sounds practical to me

MrPoshman


Er, yes to the first question and an emphatic NO that businesses are being overlooked. All sorts of rules have been in place for some time, plus new specific rules on landfill came in last month.

Environment Agency

Knock yourself out - it'll while a way an evening (or more)!

ok i'll get reading on that, agreed that the increases to landfill tax will help but why are the people of this country allowed to be imposed with a tax (the strategy paved the way for this) on rubbish yet businesses are not led by statutes but more based on voluntary agreements?

thats the bit that i'm concerned with, surely is one is held up through legislation so then the other should.

in my opinion an example of the standoffish nature of new labour to big businesses, another example is single use carrier bags (or lack of governmental direction on this)

should it not be your responsibility to clean up after yourself?

if i left a parcel on your rug, would you clean it up?