So the foul BrownJob has done the dirty deed and agreed the EU reform treaty despite his party's manifesto promise to refer it to the British people first.

BrownJob says that the debate will be conducted instead in parliament and "people will be able to judge for themselves that the British national interest has been protected".

He went on: "The changes made at the Brussels summit and subsequently include all the protections to the national British interest we demanded... I said before the summit that if we secured all these protections then in my view there was going to be no need for a referendum."

We're not interested in BrownJob's "view" - it's the view of the British people that counts. BrownJob is merely the people's servant. It seems he needs reminding.

Nor are we interested in slippery semantic differences between 'constitution' and 'treaty'.

So, DC, let's see what you and your team are made of. BrownJob must be made to respect the people's wishes and his own promise. If he won't, your mission is to kindly tear him to pieces.

Absolutely Kick that Bu##er in the nuts.. strip shreds off him

Most importantly show up these supposed "Red lines" as time limited smoke screens... in fact they don't protect us from the long term affects of "Super Europe" at all.

Jonjii, I hear this shabby excuse for a national leader says the whole thing is too complex for mere citizens to understand. Well, BrownJob needs to be taught some understanding of the British people, and that's where Cameron & Co come in.

I have always considered BrownJob to be dim. Now everything he does seems to confirm it. He insults the intelligence of the man on the Clapham omnibus. I doubt if he'll last another year.

Yup I guess I hope so too for Jolly old England's sake. His dour outlook will destroy any feel good factors there may be.

Betcha he wears a dark suit in France tomorrow night.. If he can go.. I see he has picked a fight with the French.. Let me go and read the story again.

Yup Brown says he wants to open up Europe to trade with non European countries (Agricultural produce from Africa I guess) wherreas France wants to protect her farmers so wants trade barriers.

British farming has been virtually destroyed anyway, what with price squeezes and cheap food miles and foot and mouth and one thing and another. I would say that the British Farmer would likely love a bit of protection from potatos flown in from Africa and lamb from NZ.

On the otherhand, having sympathies for the Africans I would quite like to give them the ability to trade themselves to greater income

Hmm I will listen to the arguments

But according to the Times Brown has done this in the hope of distracting from the main argument (as to whether he should give us a referendum.

Honorable jonjii san say:



He's like our own 'Last Samurai' (Except he isn't a mentalist sofa hopping Oompa Loompa)

That's what he does with everything. He spins more than all the washing machines in my local launderette!

So what's your boss gonna do about it?

It'll be interesting to see how many Labour MPs vote against Brown's (let's not pretend it was Darling) recent budget proposals. The crass changes to CGT to pay for the panic attack on IHT looks like biting him in the rear.

A lot - not that he's actually my boss - I just support him. He's done at lot already - see PMQs on Wednesday for a start. He's promising a campaign for a referendum, and he's going to give us one when he's Prime Minister. He's gonna do a lot.

Apparently theres already a few wobbles within the Labour Party about the Taper Tax. The Unions are not happy neither are the backbenchers, so I think that the whips are going to have their work cut out when this (and the other budget proposals) come to be voted on - sometime early in the new year isn't it?

Anyway these time to mount a couter attack so good luck on that one!

Do not under any circumstances let the issue of the EU slip away, it matters greatly to Britain and should be raised every single day till we the British people once again get our democracy back by virtue of being able to vote on who runs us

I do not care about Browns red lines, as they amount to nothing, we need a distinct single line drawn up by the conservatives right now

A VOTE over this constitution, everything else is second place, get this across every single media outlet, get the message so hard driven into peoples minds that Brown cannot escape his duty to provide us with democracy, I certainly did not expect to see in this nation us sold off without a say

given we as a nation have fought not just two world wars, but many others to ensure democracy and freedom to decide as a people is the clear British message across the globe I find it offensive that Labour are behaving in a dictorial manner and we seemingly can do nothing about it

Enter stage left MR CAMERON and it would pay every single Conservative to stop infighting and get behind this single issue, because if you do not, if you allow this to slide, then the nation of Britain has been betrayed and it would not just fall at the feet of the left wing for doing the dirty deed

but it would also fall to the feet of the opposition for not fighting with everything to get the dirty deed stopped before it started

Go with gods blessing and please please save our humble nation from the insatiable distant interfering monster of Europe, good men have already died to stop it before, now grow the backbone and stand firm against the next generation of dictators

With so many 'red lines', it would make more sense surely to withdraw and negotiate for a relationship based on trade and co-operation on certain cross-border issues, period.

I agree with yorker except for the "withdraw" bit. Thousands of jobs depend on our membership of the EU.
But it should be a flexible trading organisation as it was supposed to be when it all began.

That's the point, surely! The political side has nothing to do with the original concept which was the free flow of goods and services. We signed up to that and barring a few hiccups it seems to trundle along quite well.

What would the effect be if we withdrew from all the political garbage?

We have to have a referendum!

Politicians are step by step signing our democracy away.

Maastricht was a step too far.

This amending (Constitutional) treaty, with the massive transfer of power and sovereignty to Brussels, must be the point at which the people have to be asked for their consent.

" the foul BrownJob has done the dirty deed and agreed the EU reform treaty "

Yorker you normally have a well reasoned argument, worth reading but why resort to this childish name calling. There is so much of it on these forums, I don't know what effect it has on others but as soon as I see it I feel that the arguement that follows will lack credibility

Probably has something to do with my exasperation and the utter contempt in which I hold this individual. If he treated the British people with respect I might might show him some.

Well said yorker!

Yorker says "If he treated the British people with respect I might might show him some."
Add to that, " and tells the truth about what he has done and intends to do ......"

Thought those who don't read the ST may find these links worth reading:
From The Sunday Times October 21, 2007

Beware the grip of the Euro monster
&
Bad luck folks, Brown just isn’t bothered about Europe

The LibDems have said they won't vote for an EU Referendum in the House of Commons.



Not a good start for Messrs Clegg and Huhne's leadership campaign I'm afraid, letting Labour off the hook like this!

LibDems have always been pro Super State EU of course they will not vote for a referendum.

One of the three big reasons why they have so few MP's and are so low in the polls.

If a referendum came out against the EU the poor old LibDems would lose the will to live. Clegg's first job, if he gets the leadership, should be to jettison their Europe agenda and get shot of the idiots who masterminded it.

The EU is no longer the EEC that we joined. It is now a political body and the larger it gets the more our influence on it diminishes. The EU has actually caused our nation a lot of damage. It is time to look at whether EU membership is in the interests of Britain. Remember how David Cameron said on his newsnight interview that he would judge the EU on whether it is of benefit to Britain or not. It certainly seems like we are always getting the short end of the stick in Europe.