Posted by Tizzy on Thursday, 22 February 2007 14:24:48

I know it's oft been said of Tony that he's a Tory, but I am now firmly of the opinion that he's doing his darndest to ensure Labour/Gordon don't get elected at the next election.

Posted by canvas on Thursday, 22 February 2007 15:49:31

I know what you mean Tizzy - this seems an outrageous thing for the government to do - and I thought quite a few people on Webcameron might wish to consider signing the petition. What's with the ID card obsession?!

All creative thought will stamped out and we will have a country full of robots - with electronic chips embedded in every orifice. It's complete madness.

Posted by davetheslave on Thursday, 22 February 2007 19:05:06

What exactly are these proposals you are referring to? I've not heard anything about them, and the petition doesn't really say much either. Could you furnish me with a few details?

Posted by canvas on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:03:02

I believe it has stemmed from the press complaints commission.

According to members of the public there are a number of disturbing instances where photographers are being told (wrongly) that they can’t photograph groups of people and scenes in public places by child protection officers, security guards, London Eye officials and police officers. Sometimes photographers have been told to delete their photographs.

Apparently, the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport have been advised to " recommend that that there should be the right to privacy as stipulated in the Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC, and that the Government should implement this element of the Directive. This is because of emerging technologies which most individuals are likely to possess. These technologies will make it easy to invade privacy in circumstances where existing laws, without an explicit reference to the right to privacy, are ill suited to protect privacy."

There appears to be concern within the government about the use of camera phones and video phones..
They are apparently concerned that news agencies are encouraging members of the public to submit photographs.

It sounds like there is a large number of the public being approached in an aggressive manner about their photography in public places . I presume this is what has prompted the petition. Does this help?

Do you think this is a storm in a teacup? I hope it's not true that the government want to see this ban implemented.

 

Comment edited by canvas on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:18:41

Posted by davetheslave on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:19:04

Well, it helps a bit, although it all still seems pretty vague. Of course people should have the right to photograph, but people also have the right to privacy. A balance must be struck. I don't see any evidence for any grand conspiracy by the government, and certainly not an attempt to "kill art and culture". I'm sure if and when any concrete moves are made, it'll all come out in the wash.

You shouldn't forget that there's a very good reason why most artists tend to be left-wing: they know which side their bread is buttered. When taxes are cut, the arts are the first to suffer. Taking DC's favourite country, Sweden as an example, one of the first acts of the New Moderate government was to end free entry to museums.

Posted by Popple on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:27:33

We have free entry to most but not all national museums in the UK. But the government has not increased the grant it makes for several years and this has resulted in job cuts and lack of maintenance in many places. Visitor numbers have gone up with the result that more staff are required to prevent theft of and damage to exhibits.

There is increadsing reliance on the heritage lottery fund to finance capital works but that does not pay the wages of museum staff with the result that museum staff pay levels have gone down in relation to other workers.

So free entry is great in principle but the museums and their staffs are suffering as a result.

Posted by canvas on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:28:20

I think these recent events prompted some debate within government...

http://news.independent.co.uk/media/article2141635.ece

There is also a good reason why most artists are vegetarians - it's because they're very nice people :) LoL

Anyway, I really hope these claims are not true. I guess we will just have to watch that space closely.

Posted by Popple on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:30:32

We have free entry to most but not all national museums in the UK. But the government has not increased the grant it makes for several years and this has resulted in job cuts and lack of maintenance in many places. Visitor numbers have gone up with the result that more staff are required to prevent theft of and damage to exhibits.

There is increadsing reliance on the heritage lottery fund to finance capital works but that does not pay the wages of museum staff with the result that museum staff pay levels have gone down in relation to other workers.

So free entry is great in principle but the museums and their staffs are suffering as a result

Posted by davetheslave on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:39:18

To be honest, I would welcome any move which helps put a nail in the coffin of the toxic celebrity culture in the UK.

Posted by davetheslave on Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:46:32

@Popple

At least people are going to the museums. A big story in today's Swedish papers is that museum visits are down 35% on average, compared to the previous year. The architecture museum has lost 83% of its visitors. But I agree with you that if a museem is free, it should still be properly financed of course.

Posted by Graham on Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:10:41

This is mindboggling!

Photography is a hobby of mine and I also don't need permission to take pictures of buildings from the street unless they are MOD property and covered by appropriate legislation, also what I *don't* need to do is to ask anyone's permission to take a picture of them and, indeed, such a law would be unenforceable (if I take a picture of a crowd of people, do I have to get *everyone's* permission?!)

Once again, however, it seems that we have a nonsensical knee-jerk response from a control freak government and that, somehow, by passing this law, we can "prevent terrorists from doing reconnaisance", but this is ludicrous, especially given the state of the equipment now available, it is a simple matter to conceal a digital still or movie camera in a bag and take "sneak photos" without anyone knowing.

All this is going to do, like so many of the new laws being proposed, is to cause problems for the law-abiding and legal photographic community whilst doing damn all to stop those who wish to break the law.

Or maybe it's just an attempt to stop Private Eye from posting those nasty pictures of politicians with funny captions on their front page?!

PS as regards this so-called "celebrity culture", we have created it in this country, if we didn't buy the newspapers and magazines that have those pictures in, they wouldn't get published.

I can take pictures of anyone in a public place provided I do not breach the law, part of which is now in the Sexual Offences Act 2003, although oddly, taking photos up someone's skirt probably *would* breach that law, yet we don't hear about convictions for that when such pictures are splashed across the Tabloids!

Posted by canvas on Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:15:20

Graham - The problem is (as Davetheslave pointed out) the details are very vague. I can only find out bits and pieces of the argument. However, it would be nice to hear the governments views on this subject.

Posted by scrubsupwell on Thursday, 22 February 2007 22:30:15

Does this mean using a camera/camcorder or a mobile phone/camera?

Posted by davetheslave on Friday, 23 February 2007 08:46:42

@Scrubsupwell

It doesn't seem to mean anything at the moment. It appears that the actions of a few over-zealous officials have resulted in yet more claims of a "government conspiracy", this time against photographers. I'm a bit surprised at Canvas, adding fuel to the flames in this inflammatory way. I think being active on WebCameron is making us all a bit to quick to see a conspiracy!

Posted by canvas on Friday, 23 February 2007 10:42:52

Yes davetheslave - you're absolutely right. I am getting caught up in the hysteria of Webcameron conspiracy theories! LoL :) Point taken! I'm going to edit my 'title' on this article to 'Is this true?' instead of pronouncing 'the death of art and culture'! Thank you for being so sensible. :)