Posted by Tizzy on Saturday, 17 February 2007 18:59:34

Well, on the plus side, there won't be any more need for interrogations.

Posted by kozmicstu on Saturday, 17 February 2007 19:35:49

I have to give the government my bank details all the time for housing benefit. I gave my bank details to the Registry Office to give Notice Of Marriage... I gave my bank details to Carphone Warehouse, for God's sake... I don't see the issue, I fill in forms like this all the time.

Enjoy foreign :-)

Posted by spivver on Saturday, 17 February 2007 20:15:33

And I suppose, Kosmicstu, that you would be prepared to give up all your rights, privacy and freedoms to the Government such that it can keep you fast asleep in your nice safe Orwellian state of mind?

Well, rather you than me buddy, but, one day, when your child, who will have, by then, grown up, asks you "Dad, why didn't you speak up with any outrage when you had your freedoms?", I, and many of us, will judge you!!

So keep claiming your housing benefits. Those of us who work hard and have to pay the taxes to pay for your benefits are already judging you!!

Posted by stevejnb on Saturday, 17 February 2007 20:51:59

I heard recently that medical records are being passed to the emergency services to enable them to work more safely. Imagine an HIV+ casualty at a road incident, unconscious and in need of urgent treatment for blood loss. Arguably the services would be able to carry out their duties with greater safety if this information was known to them. A number of years ago a WPC was stabbed to death by a mental patient. At the time the police beleived sending in a WPC would be a better option as a woman would present less of a threat to the man. Unknown to the police the man hated women and if the police had access to his patient records they would have been able to act differently. These are not unreasonable justifications for passing on medical records, but unfortunately we know that this would not be the end of it. Just as the USA used terrorism laws to extradite the Natwest 3 to the USA for trial, the UK government used terrorism laws to remove Brian Haw from Westminster, and the Labour Party used similar laws passed to remove Walter Wolfgang during a Jack Straw speech.
The issue here is that the country is ruled by liars and cheats. Incompetent public school educated twats who have no morality and no respect for the people they are there to serve. I remember the arrogacne of the Tory party after 18 years in office - 2 ministers went to jail!!! The same has happened with this government - familiarity has bred contept for the law, people and the country. They're all in it for what they can get out of it.
I'm not a huge fan of US politics but they do have one important rule. A president cannot server more than 8 years.....if only that was made law in the UK.
You're definitely right to consider moving abroad. It's actually not difficult and there are countries in Europe that have a far more liberal approach. Here in Spain, you have to carry ID by law - it's simply to prove who you are. The police can ask for it, it's compulsory for credit card purchases, and doubles up as a national insuracne number for tax purposes etc. There's no chip, no bi-metallic strip to hold sensitive information - it's just ID.
As for the benefit sponger, what you should be worried about is the 100,000 people leaving the UK to work abroad each year. 40% are managerial/professional and HUGE net contributors to the Government coffers to pay social benefits. So if you're wondering where your next dole cheque is coming from.....just think about how much money the government is losing because of those voting with their feet.
A friend here mentioned to me that his father, who used to work for government security and knows much about the goings on in the depths of Whitehall is completely stunned at the lack of action by UK citizens as this Government continues to turn the country into a police state. You have to act. May this year is your first opportunity. The Tories may still have much to prove but can you really risk this continuance of communism. Think very careful about it. Your grandfathers fought wars to prevent this.

Posted by kozmicstu on Saturday, 17 February 2007 21:20:36

lol spivver

Is there anything that I'm not free to do? I still haven't worked out where I am not free, according those who claim Big Brother is watching. We have an incompetent incapable bunch of fools running the country who have not the brains, the nouse or the capability to implement a computer system for hospitals, let alone watch us or prevent us doing anything whatsoever. You claim we are less free when in fact there is MORE crime, showing that more people are doing more things from which they were previously prevented. There is MORE communication between people who are disgruntled and unhappy with the government, not less. The media are constantly and consistently complaining about the government, not being silenced or censored.

As for my housing benefit claim, which you so instantly deride, going to university is costing me somewhere in the region of £60,000, and the same for my fiance, and we have to look after a 1-year-old baby and rent a house. When I finish uni I'll have a qualification which will allow me to pay 40% tax for the rest of my life, at least in theory, and give far more back to the system than I've ever got out of it, or eve will get out of it. Anyway, I've complained about them before, as a few people know - with the current benefit system you can't do right for doing wrong. If I was to get a job they'd take all my earnings away and I'd make about 60p an hour. Now I'm a 'benefit sponger'.

I simply can't believe how shockingly rude you are. You guys deserve to be banned for your condescending, self-righteous, arrogant, rude and demeaning attitudes. What makes you believe you are so much better than anyone else, particularly when you have absolutely no trouble being so rude to people, even when you are totally ignorant of their situation, their perspective or their point of view? It's attitudes like yours which put people off posting on this site.

Grow up or go away.

 

Comment edited by kozmicstu on Saturday, 17 February 2007 21:28:21

Posted by canvas on Saturday, 17 February 2007 21:50:33

They must be Tories ! LoL :)

Posted by scrubsupwell on Saturday, 17 February 2007 23:50:24

Ksmos You give yr sort code and account number, my dad does, everybody does. Your prepared to state how much is in yr accounts. But essentially the gov doen't really need this. They break the line in the sand by wanting to know who ya send the money to and who you received it from - getit?

Posted by DaveGould on Sunday, 18 February 2007 02:33:10

I don't get how you don't get it, kozmicstu. Do you seriously think there will never be an abuse of this information? Do you not understand the power a govt has with this kind of infomation on it's citizens?

Posted by stevejnb on Sunday, 18 February 2007 07:24:24

You're right kozmic, I am rude and arrogant but I won't go away. Like many I've been paying the price of fools that voted in incompetent government - 3 times now!!! Would you have me banned for saying something you don't agree with.....goodness, are you a communist too?? You are showing some arrogance too.

You have a lovely child, for sure but you conceived a family before you were financially capable of supporting her. Sorry, but that makes you a sponger.

Giving back to the system far more than we take out is EXACTLY what socially responsible people have to do. Think about it - if we all took more out than we put in, the country would be bankrupt. Paying taxes is no big deal, especially if it benefits ALL of us but all we see is waste, and jobs for the boys and girls in Bliar’s crony gang.

Perhaps when you're a successful musician paying your 40%+ taxes and saving for your future you'll realise why people violently disagree with your liberal attitude (which by the way you're perfectly welcome to, just don't assume that if you comment, people won't comment back) The creaming of £6B from pension funds each year by this very fat chancellor has wiped £100B off the value of our pensions, yet the same government tells us we have to work longer and save more because there won't be enough for our retirement.

But I expect you'll actually do what every other musician does, and live abroad because they are also smart enough to know just how much it REALLY costs to live in the UK......even with their high and mighty socialist principles.

Posted by kozmicstu on Sunday, 18 February 2007 08:17:40

hi scrubs, no I give photocopies of the last three month's statements, including every transaction.

DaveGould, the day the Government prove themselves capable of managing an IT system is the day Satan skates to work. So far, they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, and they've got a long way to go before the start tracking anybody. Besides, as I said above, you can do MORE things now than you ever could in the past, not LESS. You are more free and liberated than you have ever been in the past. This is partly because of the internet, partly because of the modern, accepting world, and partly because of the incompetence of the people who are in charge

stevejnb no I wouldn't want anyone banned for saying things I don't agree with - we evidently disagree about a lot already. I can't help but feel that personal attacks, name-calling and rudeness don't have any place on a political forum, though. If people can't have a debate on mature issues in a mature manner then what is the point? As I said above, it also puts people off posting if they think they'll be insulted, and then the site loses their point of view.

For the record, I'm not a liberal and I disagree with the current benefit system on oh-so-many levels. If you were in my position, though, where it's a choice between taking benefits or not going to university, I think I know which you'd take. Oh, and I'm not a musician.

 

Comment edited by kozmicstu on Sunday, 18 February 2007 08:22:11

Posted by spivver on Sunday, 18 February 2007 10:12:41

Stevejnb, you are arguing along the lines of so many of us who are out in the great wide world getting rooked solid by this greedy, corrupt, criminal, wasteful government, and I fully agree with your sentiments. I am myself considering moving to Spain over the next few years - I have a house out there (bought for by my own hard work, not the taxpayers', Stu!!) and know many Brits who have abandoned what was a once Great Britain.

Many many years ago, when my own generation was young and went to University, we had miniscule grants which we had to live on, whilst we did useful degrees - chemistry, physics, maths, english, languages, engineering and so forth, not the dearth of useless stuff which the kids seem to do nowadays. No benefits for us, not even bank overdrafts, and no loans, as the banks considered us unwaged. We just had to manage. We did not have illegitimate children to support, or throw ourselves upon the state (at the expense of the then taxpayers), or rely in any way upon Blair's ridiculous benefit culture.

Sorry Kosmicstu, if you find these sentiments offensive. But, hey, you'll have to just accept that people have attitudes and outlooks different to your own.

And we had more rights, privacy and freedoms. We had habeas corpus back then, a right to be assumed innocent until found guilty, a right to be tried by one's peers, no survelliance, we had no lawyers, accountants and others all reporting back to SOCO any proceeds of any crime with no de-minimus level (look up the Money Laundering regulations if you don't know what I'm talking about), no prostituting of one's identity just to open a bank account (for a simple example), we had specified restricted police powers, and so on...

My grandchildrens' freedoms are at stake, and I, for one, hold our politicians accountable, even if the youngsters like Kosmicstu (and many many others), are all quite willing to give these freedoms up to the criminals in power in this country.

Posted by canvas on Sunday, 18 February 2007 11:04:10

stevejnb, you said "You have a lovely child, for sure but you conceived a family before you were financially capable of supporting her. Sorry, but that makes you a sponger."

I'm sorry but that is an appalling statement to make - and it precisely that kind of attitude which is the reason why the Labour Party have remained in power for a decade. The majority of people in this country do not think like that. Your comments are a throwback to the heartless days of Maggie Thatcher and the old conservative party. I do not believe David Cameron and the new Tory Party will support your views. Your comments seem best suited to UKip.

Posted by stevejnb on Sunday, 18 February 2007 11:16:07

I am an IT Consultant and I know I know more about the capability and potential of IT than I do about Music Technology...so please bear with me on this one.

Kozmic say "DaveGould, the day the Government prove themselves capable of managing an IT system is the day Satan skates to work. So far, they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, and they've got a long way to go before the start tracking anybody"....and you want to give your personal details to someone who you believe is incompetent to manage it?

You're recorded more than 300 times a day on video, digital facial recognition is already installed in airports linked currently to terrorist databases (think what they could do with digital images from ID cards). Police car videos have number plate recognition software and within seconds, officers have your insurance and MOT details, speeding convictions and other criminal records (bear in mind this government passed a law to keep for life all your misdemeanours, even cautions) loaded onto their in-car video screen. Take a look in a modern traffic car the next time you pass one by.

If this doesn't convince you, just think about how quickly the police is able to reconstruct the movements of criminals and make arrests. They use technology to do this, and if it were only put to use to resolve crime, I'd be all for it.

Ironically much of this increase in security is 'justified' because we live in a world where terrorism has never been more threatening.....yet who was it that increased the threat to the UK?

I don't mean to be rude this time Kozmic, but you are a little naive about the capabilities of technology and the intentions of this government. I've been in the IT and Communications Industry for 20 years....nuf sed.

Posted by stevejnb on Sunday, 18 February 2007 11:26:10

Canvas - Sorry you find my comments distasteful but if you don't think it's the view of ALL politicians and the majority of this country then you're in cloud cuckoo land. Ever tried getting a mortgage without a job? It's not a matter of politics, it's about economics and social responsibility. A child is the most precious gift you can give yourselves - but you shouldn't do it on someone else's credit.

Posted by canvas on Sunday, 18 February 2007 11:30:27

I'm sorry - but to say "You have a lovely child, for sure but you conceived a family before you were financially capable of supporting her. Sorry, but that makes you a sponger." to someone without even knowing their personal circumstances is disgraceful. You cannot justify a comment like that. You can only try to apologise. It's wrong and it's cruel.